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View Full Version : help with final 4x5 decisions



b.cipolla
7-Aug-2010, 14:04
So I made a thread asking for advice looking for my first 4x5 a few weeks ago and you all were a great help. Thank you very much. Now, I am stuck between getting a Wisner Traditional and a Chamonix 45N-1. I can get a Wisner Traditional along with a lens board and bellows from John Wilton for $725 plus shipping. On the other hand, I can get a Chamonix with a lens board, bellows, and case for $952 plus shipping. I am stuck because I am leaning towards the Chamonix but the price of the Wisner is also swaying me towards that. Ideally, I would like a Technical Wisner but I haven't been able to find one for the right price. I am really just looking for which one is the most versatile and can be set up in strange perspectives. I think that the Chamonix would be able to handle this the best, but once again, the price of the Wisner is persuading. So, what do you guys think. (Please only consider the cameras I have mentioned.) As always, thank you!

Gem Singer
7-Aug-2010, 14:33
While waiting for delivery of a new Chamonix you could be photographing with the used Wisner.

Money seems to be an issue here. By purchasing the Wisner, there will be enough difference left over to cover the price of film and some of the needed accessories.

If you don't mind waiting until the fall and paying the nearly $300 additional price, by all means purchase the Chamonix.

If not, purchase the Wisner and start shooting. Both are equally fine 4x5 wooden folding flatbed field cameras.

Lachlan 717
7-Aug-2010, 14:41
What criteria did you use to end up with these 2 cameras?

neil poulsen
7-Aug-2010, 15:35
Is there any kind of warranty with the new Chaminix? If so, consider waiting for that one. There's no warranty with the Wisner.

MIke Sherck
7-Aug-2010, 16:28
Is there any kind of warranty with the new Chaminix? If so, consider waiting for that one. There's no warranty with the Wisner.

I think it unlikely that the Wisner will blow a tube any time soon. :) If it's in decent condition (light-tight, no split wood, etc.) then there's not much which can go wrong with a field camera. I've had a Wiser Technical Field and now use an old Zone VI, I believe Wiser-made, which is pretty much equivalent to a Wisner Traditional Field, and I don't see anything the Tech Field will do that the Traditional can't do.

To be sure, there's a lot to love about a new view camera: there's that new camera smell, the virtual certainty that every mistake you make can't be blamed on the camera (think lens, tripod, focusing cloth, etc.) and so on. Personally, I'd love a new camera but being an, um, "frugal" Yankee, can't make myself give up an old but still perfectly functional camera. My fault: the entire economy is in dire straits and it's probably entirely the fault of cheapskates like me. :)

Mike

Gem Singer
7-Aug-2010, 16:51
Neil's point regarding a warranty is a valid one (read on).

Ron Wisner is no longer available to stand behind his cameras.

However, neither is Jack Deardorff. Yet people are willing to pay high prices for fifty year old Deardorffs. They use them, cherish them, and can have them repaired if necessary.

Whatever you feel about Ron Wisner, he was able to follow in Deardorff's footsteps for more than twenty years and made some fine cameras.

There still are a few people out there who are willing and able to service Wisners.

A view camera is not a complicated electro-mechanical device like some other types of cameras I could mention. Unless it's seriously damaged, a LF camera seldom needs servicing.

Brian Ellis
7-Aug-2010, 17:12
I just sold a Wisner Tech Field 5x7 with 4x5 and 5x7 backs, bag bellows, 7 Wisner lens boards, and Wisner ground glass protective cover for about $850 on ebay. It was offered here at a little more but no takers or even offers. You can find a 4x5 Tech Field if you look on ebay, when I was pricing the 4x5/5x7 I saw several that had been sold in recent months for something in the $700 range IIRC. Wisners are, IMHO, at the moment a great value-for-money camera. The outfit I sold was very close to like-new and the original cost was about $3,500.

OTOH, the Chamonix is a good bit lighter and Wisners aren't made any more so you'd need to have someone fabricate any parts that you needed unless you're handy with wood. And the $250 or so difference between the Wisner you're looking at and a new Chamonix is relative peanuts in the long run. I'd probably go for the Chamonix.

b.cipolla
7-Aug-2010, 17:30
What criteria did you use to end up with these 2 cameras?

Pretty much a field camera with the most movements and best quality that I could get for under $1,000.

b.cipolla
7-Aug-2010, 17:31
While waiting for delivery of a new Chamonix you could be photographing with the used Wisner.

Money seems to be an issue here. By purchasing the Wisner, there will be enough difference left over to cover the price of film and some of the needed accessories.

If you don't mind waiting until the fall and paying the nearly $300 additional price, by all means purchase the Chamonix.

If not, purchase the Wisner and start shooting. Both are equally fine 4x5 wooden folding flatbed field cameras.

Chamonix's are not available until the fall? Hmm I didn't know that. That will definitely be a deciding factor.

Bill_1856
7-Aug-2010, 18:10
It doesn't matter what you get. There will be problems with it, and eventually you're going to wish that you'd bought the other one and want something else.

Mel
7-Aug-2010, 20:05
Or you can fall in love with the one you buy. Don't force the decision too hard and let it happen to and for you. You never know, a lightly used Chamonix can land into your lap tomorrow.

Gem Singer
7-Aug-2010, 20:06
b.cipolla, since nobody has been able to talk you out of purchasing a large format camera, and Bill 1856 has already revealed one of the sacred principles of the large format shooters fraternity, I will reveal a few more of the principles:

1. As Bill mentioned, no matter what camera you choose as your first LF camera, in six months you will be looking for a newer, nicer camera.

2. You will become active in the "Magic Bullet Chasers Club". (so far, nobody has been able to find the magic bullet).

3. You will contract a chronic disease called "Lensitis". No matter which focal lengths or how many lens you have already acquired , you will still have the desire to purchase more lenses in a variety of focal lengths and types. This disease is incurable.

4. Soon you will discover that 4x5 is just too damn small. Then comes 5x7, 8x10, and finally, ULF. There is no end. This too is an incurable condition.

There are many more principles for you to discover for yourself. I cannot reveal all of them to you at this time.

However, enjoy your journey into the world of large format photography. It's all uphill from here.

lilmsmaggie
7-Aug-2010, 20:49
While waiting for delivery of a new Chamonix you could be photographing with the used Wisner.

Money seems to be an issue here. By purchasing the Wisner, there will be enough difference left over to cover the price of film and some of the needed accessories.

If you don't mind waiting until the fall and paying the nearly $300 additional price, by all means purchase the Chamonix.

If not, purchase the Wisner and start shooting. Both are equally fine 4x5 wooden folding flatbed field cameras.

If you're ordering a 45n-1, they're pretty much ready for delivery.

The newer 45n-2's are much more difficult to get at this time do to demand both in China and elsewhere.
EMS delivery is pretty fast. I think I received my 45n-2 in about a week from the time I placed the order - but then that all depends on where you are on the list.

Last week, I contacted Hugo and placed an order for 3 film holders, a leather jacket for the 45n-2 and a Copal 0 board. I received my order before the end of the week.

So bottomline: If you want the 45n-1, I'd say you would most likely receive it in 2-3 weeks, or less. But that all depends on where you live, when you place the order and how many other people are buying the last of the 45n-1's.

Steve Barber
8-Aug-2010, 01:02
I started with the Wisner Technical and I still have it. Along the way, since a lot of comments here undermined my confidence in it, not because of any specific dissatisfaction with the Wisner, I acquired some other cameras as well. One of them was bought for a particular purpose and is not comparable to the Wisner, although it cost as much as the Wisner did.

Of the two other field 4x5's, one cost twice as much and the other cost 2 1/2 times what I paid for the Wisner. That camera, when new, cost more than 3 times what a Wisner Technical cost, if bought new from Wisner. The other cameras have all kinds of nice features and are of very high quality in materials, fit and finish. However, I still like the Wisner and continue to use it. It does everything I want, is easy to use and I cannot make a better negative with either of the other two.

Frankly, I think it is a sure sign of the times that Wilton's camera is still unsold. I cannot say anything about the Chamonix, because I have never handled one, other than the fact that I doubt you can do anything with it that cannot be done with the Wisner. Knowing what I know now, if I were you I would buy the Wisner and spend the difference on a good lens.

As to the question of the geared rear tilt of the Technical, I do not find it to be all that useful and I would just as soon have the Traditional without it. I do not think that the geared tilt on the rear standard is worth the extra money or time spent looking for it. Unless you know of some particular reason you need it, don't worry about it. If you do know of such a reason, please tell me what I am missing.

If you do buy the Wisner, be sure you get the bag bellows that is listed with it, as well as the standard bellows, because you will need both.

eddie
8-Aug-2010, 04:42
i have bought several chamonix cameras. i love them. the service is great all around. they stand behind their equipment, no worries.

i had the 45n1, sold it and bought the n2. bother are great....but i think i am leaning towards the n1 again as it is a bit lighter and i bought it as it is light. the n2 is fabulous but the n1 suited my "movement" needs and is lighter......

maybe i will sell my n2....maybe.

jp
8-Aug-2010, 05:32
This not so much a final decision as much as an initial decision. Enjoy.

jb7
8-Aug-2010, 05:44
With the exception of the "Magic Bullet Chasers Club",
I'd have to agree with the trajectory Gem has predicted...

Rayt
8-Aug-2010, 07:14
Gem Singer's list rings true. I started with an SW45 and now thinks it does not have enough draw and movements so am contemplating a 45su but then what is the point of having two 4x5's? Shouldn't my second camera be a 5x7 or 8x10? Too many wasted hours surfing the net for that magic bullet.

Bruce A Cahn
8-Aug-2010, 08:06
Make sure you can return the Wisner if it is defective. If working properly, it is a very good little camera. The tech field is a waste of money and weight. It doesn't do anything that can't be done with the traditional. Then, if you like 4x5, trade up to an Ebony RW45 later.

Jack Dahlgren
8-Aug-2010, 08:52
The $250 difference could be spent on a lens. You will need one and want at least two.

The best part about used LF equipment is that the price you buy for is about the same as the price you can sell for, so don't be too concerned about making a mistake.

I'd buy a used wisner over a new chamonix if I were getting started.

b.cipolla
10-Aug-2010, 20:13
Wanted to let everyone know that I wound up buying John's Wisner! I'm very excited! Thank you all for the great advice. Now I just need to track down a tripod. Does anyone have any recommendations for a good first tripod that is fairly cheap?

stevebrot
10-Aug-2010, 21:41
Did he use the words "good" and "cheap" in the same sentence?

;)

Steve

(I am sure that there will be a few suggestions regarding models that are adequate and good value!)

Lon Overacker
10-Aug-2010, 23:01
Looks like I'm too late for this discussion... congrats on your "new" Wisner" I drooled over that camera for a few years, compromised with a near-equivalent Zone VI... but after I destroyed the wood camera via a face plant on some granite, I treated myself to a real, "new" camera with the Chamonix.

All I can say is that you will be very happy with the Wisner, it's a gorgeous camera, plenty of movements and you will get many, many comments... (ooooh, just like Ansel Adams... ooooh, that must be an antique.....) It's actually fun using and displaying those cameras in the field. A slight possibility that the Wisner's bulk will weigh on you over time, but depending on your use, it could last you a lifetime.

Have fun!

Lon