Recommendations for a 4x5 Monorail with Geared Movements

[jmooney]

Hi All,

I've been looking at 4x5 monorails and there are a ton of choices out there so I was hoping for some advice to narrow down the field. I'm not looking for mint condition (I purchase 99% of my gear KEH BGN grade) just fully functional with good bellows. It will be used for all around duty, slightly packable would be nice but I'm not planning on any heavy hiking with it. I would like all or most of the movements to be geared. No ground glass hood or a easily removable one as I don't care for them. I'd like to keep the cost as close to $200 as possible, there's some wiggle room of course but that's the basic target. I'm willing to shop around and wait for a good deal.

Advice and info are much appreciated,

Jim

[Brian Stein]

Old Toyo or omega. i have a 45E which has geared focus & rise/fall (but not tilt/swing); cost is right, and they are bullet proof, but really only barely packable. I would guess Cambo are similar: dont know about the calumet. Sinars are at the edge of your $ range, but I dont know if they have geared movements.

[B.S.Kumar]

I have a Toyo D45M listed here:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=63390

While it is above your budget, the accessories alone would cost quite a bit. And if you don't want those accessories, it will meet your budget easily.

The Toyo 45G, also listed in the same ad is equally well-priced...
PM or email me if you'd like to talk.

Kumar

[Lachlan 717]

Horseman L-Series.

Great camera for the price.

[Richard Mahoney]

Jim,


Hi All,

I've been looking at 4x5 monorails and there are a ton of choices out there so I was hoping for some advice to narrow down the field. I'm not looking for mint condition (I purchase 99% of my gear KEH BGN grade) just fully functional with good bellows. It will be used for all around duty, slightly packable would be nice but I'm not planning on any heavy hiking with it. I would like all or most of the movements to be geared. ...
Jim

I'd say you'd be hard pressed to better a Cambo Legend. I've never regretted getting hold of mine. I've always been fond of Series II Land Rovers. They're generally strong and dependable but if anything goes wrong you're most likely going to be able to fix them in the field -- with little knowledge and the most primitive of tool boxes. It strikes me that the Legend is the same. When I got it mine it was a little loose in the standards and stiff in some of the gears. I simply pulled it to bits, regreased it, and adjusted the tolerances. An hour or so later everything was just fine. Some of the grub screws were also missing but a quick trip to a local industrial supplier sorted that -- no surprises here, they were stock standard.

The base unit itself was relatively inexpensive but - like Sinars, Linhofs et al. - its modular, so all the other bits and pieces should be factored in. The great thing though, is that places such as KEH hold a variety of second hand addons at reasonable prices. (Hopefully all this should leave you free to put the emphasis where it should perhaps always be -- on obtaining the best lenses you can afford.)

As to portability ... I always use my beast in the field. Generally I work out the back of, or relatively close to, the truck. Still, with the tripod and head at about 7kg and the camera at about the same, it is no real problem carrying it all on one's shoulder, or the tripod in one hand and the camera in the other. Back packing isn't an issue either as its about a ten minute job to completely break down and pack the camera -- probably quicker if I had to do it more often. Do I sound like a zealot? ...

http://camera-antipodea.indica-et-buddhica.com/about/monorail-view-camera.jpg


Kind regards,

Richard

[Frank Petronio]

So long as they are complete and in good order, some of the stranger off-brands that you occasionally see on eBay are wonderful - Inka, Fatif, Wista monorails.

Older Arcas and Linhofs are hard to beat quality-wise. (Many of the older Linhof bellows are shot because the were thin leather that gets brittle.)

But of course the Cambos, Toyos, or Sinars are probably the most practical in terms of finding bellows, lensboards, and parts.

[Bob McCarthy]

OP, why are geared movements high on your want list. It really limits the choice of cameras available to pretty much studio camera's, (read heavy). There are a few execptions (Toyo, Arca) but they are out of your budget.

A Sinar F is very usable and works in the field very well. If you know the packing trick. it's easy to carry to your shooting location.

And fits your price range with cheap assessories everywhere.

bob

[Brian Ellis]

Why a monorail? Why geared movements?

[Frank Petronio]

I think he means a geared focusing track. There really aren't any good cameras with fully geared movements that are worth buying in the $200 price range.

[jmooney]

Thanks for all the great info all.

To answer a few questions that surfaced:

I'm looking at a monorail for maximum movements and versatility. I really won't be hiking with it more than a few hundred yards for now so the weight isn't a huge issue. I'll pro ably add a wooden field camera at some point as well for when I want to trek further. I'm relatively new to LF so I want to be able to try all the available movements I can and didn't want to be limited by the camera.

The desire for as many geared movements as possible comes from the fact that I have strength issues with my hands sometimes and friction fit things can be frustrating to use because I can't tighten them enough and they slip and such. The geared stuff at least stays put on it's own for the most part.

Right now it's sort of between the Sinar and the Cambo Legend and the legend has a slight lead because the adjustment handles are more handle like then the knobs on the Sinar and I see that being easier for me to use. I do like the fact that bithnacn be converted to 8x10 as well, for when I decide to have my Weston Phase :-)

[Ken Lee]

The target price of $200 is low, as Frank points out.

I got a used Sinar P (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/index.html#Sinar) with case for $600 a few years ago. It has... geared everything. :)

More recently I bumped it up to a 5x7 camera, with the purchase of a used conversion kit which cost far less than a 5x7 camera. Now I also have a 5x7 camera that has... geared everything :)

[jmooney]

The target price of $200 is low, as Frank points out.

I got a used Sinar P (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/index.html#Sinar) with case for $600 a few years ago. It has... geared everything. :)

More recently I bumped it up to a 5x7 camera, with the purchase of a used conversion kit which cost far less than a 5x7 camera. Now I also have a 5x7 camera that has... geared everything :)

Oh I know it's low but I've got two kids to feed :D


That's an advantage for the Sinar though, the Legend only has the option to go to 8x10 from what I've seen, then again I keep swearing that 4x5 will be big enough.....

Jim

[jmooney]

So I decided to go with the Cambo Legend. It arrived today and I have to say it's a work of engineering art. The Porsche 911 is also a work of engineering art. Unfortunately for the Legend it weighs about as much as the Porsche....

I'm really sad because I like the camera a lot but it's headed back from whence it came, it's just too heavy for me. If I could afford to have 2 4x5's right now I would keep this in a heartbeat. I can't imagine a better studio camera but I want to be able to carry this in the field sometimes and it just won't make it.

:(

Any other suggestions for a 4x5 to tote afield? I fully realize now I'm going to have to forget the idea of geared movements. So 4x5 for the field with good movements for around $200?

[rdenney]

If you liked the layout of the Legend, the SC is a similar layout without geared movements. It's not really less bulky, but it is lighter. An often cheaper version of the same camera is the Calumet 45nx. That's probably the only camera of any real use on the market at your price point that will be lighter than the Legend.

The Sinar F is also lighter than any view camera with geared movements, and much more compact than the Cambo. It's about the only thing lighter than what you tried that you can get within a mile of your price.

The Calumet CC-400 is often available at this price point or less, but it's heavier than any of the above.

A field camera will be lighter but more expensive.

You may need to compromise a bit more or be prepared to bulk up (either the muscles or the wallet).

Rick "prices are low but not that low" Denney

[jmooney]

Thanks Rick!

What about the Sinar A series? Anyone care to comment on them?

[Bill_1856]

Graphic View. Geared focusing and front rise. GV II is excellent, seems to be made of Indestrictium to last a lifetime. Get the later model with Graflock back.

[rdenney]

Thanks Rick!

What about the Sinar A series? Anyone care to comment on them?

The Sinar A is the Alpina, as I recall. It is the same as an F, except that it has a unique rail that cannot be extended as can the Sinar standard rail used on the F, P and all other Sinars. The Alpina rail is much more compact, but not quite as rigid.

Above the rail, the Alpina and the F are nearly identical. The Alpina uses all the standard Sinar bellows, boards, and back accessories with full interchangeability. But the rail attachments are different and are not interchangeable.

The standard Alpina rail is longer than the 12" standard rail for other Sinars, so it will probably be inconveniently long if you use short lenses.

I suspect the Alpina was an experiment to produce a first-rate view camera at a lower price point, but it competed with the F and probably wasn't enough cheaper to make it worth giving up the rail interchangeability. But if being able to use standard Sinar rails is not important to you, then the Alpina might meet your needs nicely if you can find one for a good price.

Rick "who rarely sees Alpinas for sale and therefore forgets to consider them" Denney

[Richard Mahoney]

... You may need to compromise a bit more or be prepared to bulk up (either the muscles or the wallet). ...

Or possibly just go on retreat and spend some time contemplating The Aging Saint:

http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/index.html

In reality, things have never been easier ... when I think of loads that NZ deer stalkers used to happily carry out, it makes me a little ashamed to grumble about a mere camera ;)


Kind regards,

Richard

[Frank Petronio]

People dislike the Sinar Alpina, too many plastic parts and I guess it wears quickly. I see older Sinar Fs go for not much more than the Cambos and Calumets these days, and considering the interchangeability of rails it seems a no brainer unless the Alpina is in the $100 category. The only weak point on the F (and later F1) is the weak clamp that attaches the front standard to the rail. It's not a big deal, most are still going strong after 35 years, but if it is ever going to break, that's the spot.

Another nice monorail that sometimes goes for cheap is the 1970s-80s Linhof Kardan xxxxx (many models). I think their entry level student model is awesome, the Color ST I think. It takes easily available Technika boards and the back is identical to the $6000 Linhofs. Watch out for worn bellows on these.

One last note, if you plan on using pack-instant film with the Polaroid 405 or Fuji PA-145, some of these older monorails don't get along with those Polaroid holders, especially in the horizontal position -- the standards interfere, etc. (Not an issue w a Sinar, other YMMV, some older Linhofs can't).

[Darin Boville]

One last note, if you plan on using pack-instant film with the Polaroid 405 or Fuji PA-145, some of these older monorails don't get along with those Polaroid holders, especially in the horizontal position -- the standards interfere, etc. (Not an issue w a Sinar, other YMMV, some older Linhofs can't).

Just an amendment. On the Sinar P you can use the pack film in the vertical position but getting the darkslide in and out is a pain in the butt. The arrangement of the standard requires quite a sharp curve. If your darkslide is metal rather than the fiber material then I doubt you could do it. I have a Sinar P and for some reason this problem sort of bums me out. Used horizontally there is no problem at all.

--Darin

[Peter De Smidt]

I owned a Sinar Alpina for about a year. I prefer an F. The long rail of the Alpina cannot dismantled to make it easier to pack, and the round rail Sinars can.