Best Standard lens for 5 x 7 format?

[joelorbita]

Hi, Am looking to shoot some portraits on 5 x 7 and slightly crop so that it is more in the aspect ratio of 5 x 4/8 x 10 and for this i have been told a 180mm is the best option for achieving a "normal" lens look. Any suggestions as to what lens to get if shooting them wide open? Also, is 5.6 the most wide open I am going to get with a modern multi-coated lens? Or is there a 4.5 lurking out there? If there is a standout in the 210mm size, then that is also an option.. Any suggestions? Coverage is not massively important but of course it would be nice if I decided to shoot some landscapes on this format or even for helping compose the scene when shooting the portraits.. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much in advance. Joel

[Jack Dahlgren]

All the modern multi-coated lenses are good. In those focal lengths they should also have enough coverage for what you are shooting. Find a used one for a good price and get started.

[Andrew Plume]

pm sent

[Steve Sherman]

Hi, Am looking to shoot some portraits on 5 x 7 and slightly crop so that it is more in the aspect ratio of 5 x 4/8 x 10 and for this i have been told a 180mm is the best option for achieving a "normal" lens look. Joel

If your shooting portraits you'll be better served if you use a lens 1.5 - 2 times longer than normal to reduce fore shorting of facial features.

The diagonal of 5x7 film is very close to 210mm making that the normal focal length.

Shooting wide open with modern lenses merely lessens depth of field still yielding a very sharp image, not something usually desired with people portraits, older lens, non coated lens will suffer from slight flare wide open which can be desirable for portraits.

Another option is to take a piece of black nylon stocking and stretch over the front of the lens and shoot near wide open to diffuse facial imperfections. Small holes in the black stocking serve to control the amount of diffusion created by the technique.

Most people would want there portrait to appear longer and thinner (5x7 rather 4x5), lastly, have the subject slightly project their chin forward to tighten the skin under the chin taking significant weight off the subject.

Obviously one man's tastes may not be anothers, my two cents

[joelorbita]

Thanks everyone, will be on the lookout for a 180mm. I currently own a 210 Caltar
II-N so maybe I will have a play with that first.. With regards to the format, hmmmm, am not sure why i like the 54/810 ratio, I just find 5 x 7 too skinny for my personal tastes... Ok, thanks again.. Cheers

[Brian Stein]

I am with Steve Sherman: I usually find the better result with a longer lens (I have 300 that I use for this) rather than a shorter lens like 180mm. As you have already a nice normal lens why not experiment with that first (its not so much fun as shopping for that dream bargain lens...... ;-))

[sully75]

I have the Schneider Kreuznach 5.6 Symmar (it's convertible to a not that great 300mm apparently but my camera isn't long enough to focus it).

All the pictures here are from that lens:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulmcevoy/sets/72157623159051495/

Here's one where I wish I had your 210...or something longer:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-42D8WL81rw/TEYecU6JnqI/AAAAAAAAAlc/4EmHDUaoLBY/s640/7%2018%2010006%20Anna%20no%20notch.jpg

And another one that uses it to good effect:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-42D8WL81rw/TEYecsKmvII/AAAAAAAAAlg/zd3sd8mwfuM/s640/7%2018%2010008%20MAF%20notched.jpg

Really starting to love this format.

[sully75]

whoops...meant to link to the pictures. Good luck!

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-42D8WL81rw/TEYecsKmvII/AAAAAAAAAlg/zd3sd8mwfuM/s640/7%2018%2010008%20MAF%20notched.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-42D8WL81rw/TE...no%20notch.jpg

[sully75]

arghh one more time (this is the one where I wish I had a longer lens)
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-42D8WL81rw/TEYecU6JnqI/AAAAAAAAAlc/4EmHDUaoLBY/s640/7%2018%2010006%20Anna%20no%20notch.jpg

[sully75]

btw this lens was quite cheap, I think I got mine for $100 on ebay and it's in great shape. Sat there till the last second to place my bid.

[joshdaskew]

Sorry, what focal length is that of the full body portrait of the girl in woods? Great image by the way, was front tilt used? Thanks

[sully75]

oops. I guess I forgot that. It's 180mm.

That was a mistake. I think it looks good, it's not really my style. My camera doesn't have front tilt, and I'm still trying to figure out how to do this upside down thing. I wanted more of her feet in the frame, but kept making the camera higher (I know). Then I had to tilt the camera down to get her feet in. It was really high. And then shot really shallow.

Totally stupid but I like it.

Anyway, 180mm Schneider Kreuznach Symmar f5.6.

[jnantz]

i was going to suggest a symmar convertible ( but sully75 already did ) and shoot it at
the longer focal length. i use a 210/370 often, the 370 for portraits
but a shorter lens would work well too.

good luck
john

[joshdaskew]

Great, thanks so much for all the help and responses! Will have a play with the 210mm and take it from there! Best Regards Josh

[Scott --]

My go-to lens on 5x7 is/was/will-always-be a 210/5.6 Sironar-N MC, FWIW.

[Ralph Miyashiro]

as previously stated I would recommend 300mm or longer for 57 portraits. Older designs (tessar) are available at 4.5. Newer designs that are sharp to the corners at large aperture may not have an advantage with the shallow DOF associated with portrait work. My 2 cents.

[Ole Tjugen]

Comment to the previous post: A 300mm f:4.5 Xenar (or any other Tessar-type lens) is a monster in a Compound V shutter or similar, weighing in at around 1 kg. Not all cameras can handle that bulk, nor can those shutters be mounted on all lens boards.

Multicoating isn't really necessary on LF lenses. Coating is nice in most cases, multicoating makes very little difference. For portraits, I have an uncoated 240mm Heliar. Unfortunately I have no shutter for that, so I use it on a 4x5" Speed Graphic.

[sully75]

I'm pretty new to this, but as far as I can see, my 5x7, with a fairly short set of bellows, can't focus a 300mm. I'd need another 3 inches I think. Something to keep in mind, possibly.

Am I right in assuming that all 300mm lenses will need the same length to focus? I tried taking the front cell off my convertible 180/300 schneider symmar and it's not in focus even if I extend the bellows off the rails.

[Ole Tjugen]

You found one example right there which demonstrates that all 300mm lenses will NOT require the same bellows draw.

Most "standard" lenses are more or less symmetrical - even the Tessars which are far from really being symmetrical can be considered as such for the purposes of bellows draw.

The exceptions are the very unsymmetrical ones - telephoto lenses and single-cell lenses mostly, since retrofocus wide angle lenses are rare for LF (but they do exist).

A telephoto lens will require less bellows draw - a 360mm Tele-Xenar requires about the same bellows as a 210mm Xenar does to focus at infinity.

A single cell behind the shutter, as in a converted Symmar, requires much more bellows draw than a "normal" lens. THere's a table somewhere in one of the old publications from Schneider which lists exactly how much, but I don't have it here at the moment. If I remember correctly, as 240/420mm Symmar convertible requires almost 600mm extension to focus the 420mm rear cell at infinity.

[Ken Lee]

"...my 5x7, with a fairly short set of bellows, can't focus a 300mm"

This article (http://www.ebonycamera.com/articles/lenses.html) on the Ebony web site, lists several lenses of Tele design, as suitable for 5x7: Fujinon, Nikon, and Schneider.

[John Kasaian]

I've got four: A 203 Ektar for handheld (no movements) a 159mm Wollensak Yellow Dot WA for wides, a 14" APO Artar for longs and a 215 Ilex for everything else. It seems like a lot of lenses, but the 159 Wolly & 14" Artar I can use on the 8x10 and the others work nicely on 4x5 :)

[rdenney]

For portraits I really like the tessar design (given that there are no Sonnars for large-format cameras). My favorite is a 8-1/2" Ilex Paragon, f/4.5. Thin depth of field is possible and it has a very smooth transition from in focus to out of focus. That gives the images an old-world look. That would be just about ideal as a normal lens for 5x7. Even if you cropped it to 5x6.25 to get the 4x5 aspect, it would be barely longer than normal. whereas 180 would be slightly wider than normal.

It is plenty sharp when stopped down to f/22 or so.

Unlike the f/4.5 or f/5.6 300mm and 12" lenses, the 8-1/2"/4.5 is mounted in an Ilex No. 4 that will work with any camera. It's about the same physical size as a 12" f/6.3 tessar design such as the Commercial Ektar or its copies.

I have a 210mm Sinaron (an APO-Sironar N just like your Caltar II-N), but it doesn't have the character or the old-world look of the Paragon.

Rick "currently setting it up for a Speed Graphic just to use for portraits" Denney

[Bruce A Cahn]

I use a 210 Schneider XL as a standard lens for 5x7. I like it for portraits too, even though most photographers would go for something longer, such as a 240. The Rodenstock apo sironar s lenses are very good in all focal lengths and not as expensive as the XL.

[AlexanderTkatschow]

Hi, Am looking to shoot some portraits on 5 x 7 and slightly crop so that it is more in the aspect ratio of 5 x 4/8 x 10 and for this i have been told a 180mm is the best option for achieving a "normal" lens look. Any suggestions as to what lens to get if shooting them wide open? Also, is 5.6 the most wide open I am going to get with a modern multi-coated lens? Or is there a 4.5 lurking out there? If there is a standout in the 210mm size, then that is also an option.. Any suggestions? Coverage is not massively important but of course it would be nice if I decided to shoot some landscapes on this format or even for helping compose the scene when shooting the portraits.. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much in advance. Joel

For many years I shot portraits in 5x7 using f5.6 240mm convertible on a standard flat lens board. For wider coverage I used 150mm and 105mm mounted on recessed lensboards. This was all in a professional studio. Some time before I had a 5x7 camera with short bellows and needed to use a longer lens than it could handle for some outdoor work. I came up with the idea of using the recessed lensboard principle in reverse. This made it possible to shoot with the longer lens by giving me some two inches greater length. This only works with quite large lensboards as a smaller coverage at the front would crop the image all around.
Making your own lensboard, recessed or flat, is easier than one would imagine if one is handy in woodwork.