advice on field 4x5

[sergiob]

I use a cambo monorail, and I am getting tired of hauling it around, and it is very unstable on my smallish tripod, a Bogen 3021 with an Acratech head. I have 4 lenses :
a Grandagon 90 6,3, a Nikkor W135 5,6, a Caltar 210 6,8, and a huge Symmar-S 300 5,6.
I will be traveling to NY in September and want to buy a field camera that I can use with my tripod (hopefully) and head, my current lenses, and one that will last me for a long time. And most important factor, under a 1000 USD price, hopefully less, since there is abundance of scarcity for "another camera", says wife. :D Second hand would be even better.


My concern with a field camera is the bellows extension with the 300 and the 90, if there is no need for a bag, or if it is long enough. Lastly, where in NY city to look for it.

Thanks

[Robert Vigurs]

I use a 4x5 monorail in the field. I use it with my Manfrotto sturdy tripod which cost me $99. You must have a sturdy, light tripod. You will be hiking to your promontory point. I recently found a canvas bag which I modified to fit the camera. I sling it over my shoulder. I found another bag, $5, which is insulated, for loaded film holders, and has pockets for other accessories. My camera cost me $104. I like the 6" lens board which allows me to use my 300, and 360mm lenses mounted to a Copal 3. I also use a 210, and 125mm, 150mm lenses with this camera. I have all movements, and levels on the camera. It is light tight, and although it is not a Sinar, or some other expensive field camera, it provides everything I need to make excellent images. There are some who believe that without the finest equipment, you shoot with a deficit. Not true. Your eye. the time and place, and luck (with good technical skills) are your allies. Seems to me, Ansel Adams did not have an Apo Symmar at hand. He WAS a master at printing,as well as shooting. 4x5 monorail in the field? Oh yea, that works.

[MIke Sherck]

The Tachihara is very light and a well-proven design but it is likely a little too light for your 300mm. The Wista is very similar, as is the Horseman. The Shen Hao is a bit more substantial as is the newer Chamonix design, but again I don't know about that 300mm Symmar-S. If it's about the same size and weight as, say, a 12" Ektar or 300mm Fujinon f/5.6 then it might be all right. I used an Ektar for several years on my Zone VI and never had a problem. Some of these cameras have only 12" of bellows extension, making use of your 300mm a moot point. The Shen Hao and Chamonix might eke out 14" if the lens isn't too heavy: you have to cantilever the front standard forward on the base tilts, then use its center tilt to make the lensboard horizontal again. You get an inch or two more extension out of it, if the bellows are long enough.

Personally, I'd look for a used double extension Zone VI or Wisner. Some older Zone VI cameras are just re-badged Tachihara or Wista cameras but they're easy to identify as they aren't double-extension and have only one focusing knob, near the front of the bed. If there are two knobs then it's a double-extension camera. Longer bellows extension and they're pretty rugged (I've had both at one time or another; an early Zone VI, likely made by Wisner, is my 4x5 of choice now. I only paid $440 for it.) My 300mm is a Nikon M, which is mucho smaller and lighter than your Symmar.

[Steve Barber]

I will second the suggestion of a Wisner 4x5 field camera. Be aware, however, that cameras like it, that can use longer lenses, usually will need a bag bellows for the shorter lenses. Without it, the compression of the standard bellows will prevent getting full movements with a 90mm lens and will not allow any movement with a 65mm lens being used and focused to infinity.

Also, as was said, the 300mm Symmar is way overkill on a 4x5 field camera. Look for a 12" Red Dot Artar or a 305mm G-Claron. Shown are the 300mm APO-Symmar above a 12" Artar along with a 360mm Ronar and a 45cm Artar, all of which are usable on the Wisner. The 12" Artar looks larger than it is since it has an adapter to change the filter from 46mm to a 52mm. Not only is this lens much smaller than the 300mm Symmar, it goes in a Copal #1 shutter instead of the much larger #3 required by the others.

[Bruce Watson]

You're in luck. You might want Herb Cunningham's Toho (http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm). He just put it up for sale (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=64537).

I've been using a Toho for almost a decade now. Never been tempted to change. It has it's quirks like all cameras do, but if you want a lightweight 5x4 it's hard to go wrong with a Toho IMHO.

[Peter De Smidt]

A Toyo AX would also be a good choice. It's very sturdy, easy to use, and rigid, much more so than any wooden camera I've used. I owned a Toho for about 5 years. I prefer the Toyo. I use mine with a 90mm, 120mm, 210mm, 240mm and a 300mm. If you need more extension, 4" back extensions are available.

[Brian Ellis]

The kicker is your 300mm Symmar-S lens. I owned the next generation 300mm f5.6 APO-Symmar very briefly - like the length of time it took to take it out of the box, observe its size and weight, put it back in the box, and return it - and I'm not sure any of the common recommendations for a relatively low-priced wood field camera (Tachihara, Shen Hao, Wista, and Chamonix) would be sturdy enough for it. I've owned all three of those cameras and I've also owned a 3021 Bogen tripod. I think any of them, but particularly the Chamonix and Tachihara, would work fine with that tripod. But I keep coming back to that 300mm behemoth lens, which might lead you to think more about a metal field camera rather than wood.

With respect to bellows extension, and ignoring the size and weight of the 300mm lens for the moment, a Shen has a 12 inch bellows that can be extended to about 14 inches by fiddling around with the base and axis tilts. The Tachihara has a 13 inch bellows. I used a Nikon M 300mm lens (much smaller and lighter than your Symmar-S) with my Tachihara and it worked fine though it was a little limited in near focusing distance (it focused to about 12' IIIRC). The Chamonix has about a 15 inch bellows so a 300mm lens is no problem with it. Wistas have 12 inch bellows and so aren't usable as a practical matter with a 300mm normal (i.e. non-telephoto) lens unless you add some sort of accessory such as a top-hat lens board.

You could use your 90mm lens easily with any of the above cameras. Zone VI and Wisner 4x5 cameras have very long bellows, something in the 20+ inch range IIRC so the 300mm would be no problem. However, you might need a bag bellows to use your 90mm lens with either of them, I don't know for sure because I've never owned either camera.

Again setting aside the size and weight of your 300mm lens, of the three wood field 4x5 cameras I've owned I'd buy the Chamonix if I were buying again. I just think that when you look at its specs, design, and construction quality it's more camera for the money than the other two and with a 15 inch bellows it's usable with a 90mm lens and a 300mm lens without needing a bag bellows for a 90mm lens or any accessories to extend the bellows for a 300mm lens. There are plenty of Chamonix owners here, maybe some have experience using a lens the size and weight of your 300mm and can tell you how well the camera holds up with such a lens.

My only experience with metal 4x5 field cameras has been many years of owning and using a Linhof Technika V and a Linhof Master Technika. Both would be excellent choices but a used Master Technika will cost $2,000+ and a used Technika V maybe about $1,500 so both are out of your price range. A Technika IV is very similar to the V and it might be closer to what you want to pay.

[Bill_1856]

Get a nice used Linhof Technika IV (with a bellows less than 5 years old). Since you won't have your lenses coupled to the rangefinder it doesn't matter that it's not the latest model.

[Rakesh Malik]

You're in luck. You might want Herb Cunningham's Toho (http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm). He just put it up for sale (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=64537).

I've been using a Toho for almost a decade now. Never been tempted to change. It has it's quirks like all cameras do, but if you want a lightweight 5x4 it's hard to go wrong with a Toho IMHO.

Toho's are nice. I have one, that I got from another LF forum user who was also getting out of backpacking myself. It doesn't have anywhere near the fit and finish of, say, an Ebony or Arca or Chamonix, but it's lighter than all of them, in fact, slightly less than 1/3 the weight of the Ebony that I'm hoping to sell -- which is also WHY I'm looking to sell my lovely Ebony camera.

[sergiob]

So if my problem is the 300 lens, then maybe it would be smarter to sell it and get a smaller longish lens. I want a faster camera to setup. The only way I can carry my monorail is disassembling it. Then I have to assemble it for every shot. It is not THAT bad, but it is a pain. It also takes up a lot of space in the backpack. Mmmhh. Tradeoffs.

[shadowleaves]

Toho's are nice. I have one, that I got from another LF forum user who was also getting out of backpacking myself. It doesn't have anywhere near the fit and finish of, say, an Ebony or Arca or Chamonix, but it's lighter than all of them, in fact, slightly less than 1/3 the weight of the Ebony that I'm hoping to sell -- which is also WHY I'm looking to sell my lovely Ebony camera.

At 1.4kg, a Toho FC-45X isn't really much lighter, if at all, than a Chamonix (045N1 weights at 1.38kg or 1.42kg depending on the wood, 045N2 is 100g heavier). It is indeed significantly lighter than a Ebony with similar bellow extension (45S or 45SU for example) or an Arca-Swiss.

[Lachlan 717]

My Shen Hao XPO handles a 270mm Petzval, lens iris and Sinar shutter at portrait extensions. It will handle your lens. (You'll see photos of this set up elsewhere in the Forum).

It also has over 400mm of draw, although I wouldn't probably recommend full extension with your 300mm on it outside a studio setting; the last 50mm of draw is done with a quad extension. Do-able, just not super solid.

[Eric Leppanen]

I want a faster camera to setup. The only way I can carry my monorail is disassembling it. Then I have to assemble it for every shot. It is not THAT bad, but it is a pain.If you are willing to accept some additional weight and bulk, the new Shen Hao non-folder is an option. It will set-up/tear-down much more quickly than a folding camera.

https://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=3420

I believe there are already several threads on this forum discussing this camera.

Non-folding cameras typically provide the most extension, light weight, and compactness when stowed. Non-folding cameras provide the fastest setup times, at some cost of extension, weight and compactness. An ultra lightweight monorail such as the Toho falls somewhat in between. As you say, trade-offs, trade-offs...

I would definitely suggest losing the 300mm Symmar-S. That lens is far too heavy and bulky for 4x5 field applications.

[Lachlan 717]

If you are willing to accept some additional weight and bulk, the new Shen Hao non-folder is an option. It will set-up/tear-down much more quickly than a folding camera.

https://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=3420

I believe there are already several threads on this forum discussing this camera.

Non-folding cameras typically provide the most extension, light weight, and compactness when stowed. Non-folding cameras provide the fastest setup times, at some cost of extension, weight and compactness. An ultra lightweight monorail such as the Toho falls somewhat in between. As you say, trade-offs, trade-offs...

I would definitely suggest losing the 300mm Symmar-S. That lens is far too heavy and bulky for 4x5 field applications.

Eric,

This is the camera that I referred to in the post above yours. No doubt we were typing at the same time!!

[Peter De Smidt]

Trading the 300mm symmar in for a Nikon or Fuji 300mm compact lens would be a good idea. Not only are those lenses plenty bright for focusing, they're much lighter, more compact, and they take smaller filters. Since you'll be shooting at F22 or smaller, the only thing that 5.6 is buying you is a slightly brighter ground glass. The biggest advantage of the smaller lenses is that they won't stress your camera at the long extensions needed to use them.

[Alan Davenport]

I use a 10" f/4.5 on my Tachihara with no problems at all. I suppose it is probably comparable (in weight) to your 300/5.6.

Suggest you pick a camera, then worry about new lenses if you have a problem. (You won't.)