Toyo Field Camera - Which is the best value?

[Frank Petronio]

OK you're going to laugh but I have decided to start traveling with 4x5 again for a few jobs and I want a metal folder that will hold a normal lens inside. I've owned Technikas and Wistas, along plenty of Graflexes, plus Sinar, Arca, and Linhof monorails. I've even owned those flimsy Wooden Toy Boxes some of you prefer.

But I've never owned a Toyo Field.

And there seems to be a couple of different generations of metal Toyo Fields in 4x5. I know I want the one in black metal, not CF (aka plastic). I don't want the whole plate or Super Graphic model. I don't care if the back revolves or requires remounting. I'd like a fresnel if they are any good, I just use normal 135-210 lenses. I really just want a durable camera with moderate basic movements.

Note that I have a general aversion to Japanese versus German cameras but I am in the Honda mindset of just wanting something that will run and run and if it is a little ugly or the stamped metal isn't as nice as the milled Swiss-German manufacture I can deal with it.

I may just go with a Wista VX or SP if one pops up, since I don't need a long bellows, but I see a lot of Toyos and they look tougher than the Wistas.

[Gem Singer]

Frank, from my experience, the Toyo 45AX is the folding flat bed metal field camera that meets your description.

I added a Toyo folding focusing hood on the one that I owned to protect the ground glass.

I used a Toyo 3.6X focusing loupe in order to eliminate the need for a dark cloth.That loupe was designed to be used with the folding focusing hood.

If you want a unique metal folder, check out the all metal Canham 45DLC.

That's the camera that we retired dentists prefer.

[tgtaylor]

AFAIK, the only Toyo field camera that folds-up with the normal lens attached is the 45CF which is a lightweight (~3.1 lb)carbon fiber camera without back movements.

The difference between the current 45AX and AII is that the more expensive AII comes with the "deluxe revolving back" and folding focusing hood as standard whereas they "optional" on the AX. Other than that they are the same camera. If you buy a used AX, it will probably have the folding focusing hood as that is a nifty accessory that most, if not all, Toyo owners will want to have. A Fresnel is standard on both models.

I've been using an AX for 6 years now with zero complaint. While it doesn't have the range of movements that my Toyo ROBOS has, it will do what you want it to do and handle all lens from 47mm to 300/360T without changing the bellows.

For more info and full specs see: http://toyoview.com and click on product information.

Thomas

[77seriesiii]

Frank,

I use two AX 4x5s, non-revolving backs. I use a 300mm fuji lens on mine (freakin tank) down to a 90mm.

Short version I really like the AXII. Is it the best one, hard to say. I've used it for portraits and landscapes. Decent movements on the front and back. Landscape wise, I backpack with mine as well so that is doable. It gets shoved (I use photo backpacker cases) into an REI backpack with 20+ film holders, ries tripod, and 2 lenses. All of this goes with me up into the German alps...drives people crazy they think the camera on a tripod is the Alpine Camera. When the wife and I are sitting at a GAst Haus up top they will intentially walk by the camera and wave into the lens. The first time I saw it the only thing I thought was WTF? Wife was laughing, she made the connection much faster than I.

Anyway, I use one of them all the time, the other sits on the shelf. Parts are still available from the NYC office and they are built like tanks.

good luck.

Erick

[Frank Petronio]

So the A-series can't fold up with a Copal 0 - 1590 Symmar type lens attached?

That's a deal killer. Even the tiny Wista can do that.

[John Schneider]

Frank,

I'd be happy to give my opinion but you'll have to entice me by posting one of your fine art pics you use to sell your gear ;) (and I know next to nothing about Toyo's, but I'd be happy to give my $0.02 anyway for the appropriate picture).

[tgtaylor]

So the A-series can't fold up with a Copal 0 - 1590 Symmar type lens attached?

That's a deal killer. Even the tiny Wista can do that.

I looked at the specs for the Wista metal field on the B&H website and while it doesn't mention that a compact Copal 0 lens will fold-up with the camera, I believe that I recall it being said that it will if you reverse the board. I just tried that with my AX and it won't close due to a front standard lever being in the way. Whether or not the older Toyo A's will fold I don't know.

That's of small concern to me since if I want to go minimalist with just one lens that will fold-up with the camera, then I'll take the 45CF which, together with the lens and folding focusing hood, will come to about 4.5 lbs.

Thomas

[Gem Singer]

Frank,

I didn't see your stipulation that the camera must be capable of folding with a lens mounted on the lens board.

In that case, the Wista SP is the camera you want. It will fold with a small sized lens in a Copal 0 shutter.

[Frank Petronio]

Gee part of the reason is that it saves a lot of bulk not to have to pack a lens separately and it does protect the lens nicely too. I'm surprised they don't, the Wista was a champ with it, I didn't have to reverse anything (maybe a 180-Copal 1 would push it).

[Oren Grad]

Perhaps you can find a normal lens that will store inside a Horseman 45FA. That would make for as small and light a package as you'll find in a 4x5 metal field - probably save 1.5-2 pounds on the Wistas. The 6x9 Horsemen can close with one of the small Horseman or Topcor lenses sold for them, and possibly with some others.

[77seriesiii]

Frank,

Definitely take a look at the Wista then (Gem Singer suggestion) or a Speed, maybe even a linhof if you want to spend the $$. The toyo cannot be folded w/ a lens attached. Well I guess it could happen once...:-)

./e

[Paul Bujak]

It will fold with a 90/6.8 Angulon on a recessed board.

[jeroldharter]

The Toyo AX and AII are not designed to be folded with a lens attached. Neither is the Canham.

The Toyo AX is a great camera though. Lenses small enough to be folded into the camera are likely small enough to be carried separately without too much inconvenience given the need for other accessories. Not sure of the Wista dimensions but I believe that the only way they can accommodate an attached lens while folded is to have larger folded dimensions so it is kind of a zero sum game.

[Darin Boville]

It will fold with a 90/6.8 Angulon on a recessed board.

Indeed, I used to do this all the time when I had mine.

--Darin

[Kevin Thomas]

As Oren Grad suggested the Horseman FA45 may might your requirements - it will fold with a Rodenstock 135mm f5.6 Apo Sironar N inside.

There is a thread with the specifications of the FA45 on the forum
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=62633&highlight=horseman+fa45

[tgtaylor]

I was thinking that mine might fold with a 150mm Rodenstock Apo-Sirona S on a recessed board but it doesn't - it just manages to clip the locking lever on the front standard. That lens is a Copal 0 that takes a 49mm filter.

[Frank Petronio]

Thanks everyone. Too late for me now. I got offered a good deal on that old whole plate 5x7 metal Toyo, the early one. The one I said I didn't want to consider... and I bought it anyway ;-)

The lens can go in a pocket, haha.

Need 5x7 holders next!

[brianam]

Glad to hear it worked out Frank. I have that early Toyo field too and use it as a 4x5 and 5x7, and whole plate.
What 5x7 back did yours come with, if I may ask?
The one I bought has a back adapted from the Toyo 5x7 rail cameras. It's very lightweight, and has a fresnel. OTOH, the 4x5 rotating back is surprisingly heavy. Would happily swap it for a non-rotating to save weight and (some) bulk.

[Frank Petronio]

I'm not sure yet!

[boris]

frank, some pics of the 5x7 toyo metal field would be very interesting. could you post some?

[Kuzano]

A few months ago we exchanged some comments about the 45CF. Slight differences of opinion, and I mentioned I was going to be on the lookout. While you mentioned concerns about the stability, I felt if priced right, I'd grab one....

Lo and behold, about a month ago, a 45CF showed up on craigslist about 20 miles away. Like new 45CF, two film holders, two lens boards... $200 for all.

It's a keeper. I buy and sell a lot of camera's, but this one is in the bag for good at that price, and unlikely to let it go, considering how much I regretted selling my last one.

Glad you found a solution. I've considered the Toyo you bought a number of times in the past.

Shooting Quickloads with the CF and having some fun.

[Frank Petronio]

I guess I was too quick to judge the CF without really using one. Some of the woodies are probably weaker.

Once I get it I will do some photos, it is fairly rare.

[Kuzano]

I guess I was too quick to judge the CF without really using one. Some of the woodies are probably weaker.

Once I get it I will do some photos, it is fairly rare.

No, I wasn't being critical of your cautions on the 45CF. It is very important that one be cautious of not tightening the lockdowns too tight and thereby stripping the brass threaded inserts out of the body material. So setup is a delicate balance of tightening the knobs down enough to make the camera sturdy, but not damage the inserts.

It is a real issue, which I admit and take care about on the 45CF.

The camera you purchased has been my considerable alternative for a more durable TOYO,

I've had the 45A , AII, and AX. I don't care for the way they fold, which is the reason you can't leave lenses on them. With the CF, the front standard slides back into the body like a Graflex and there is a knockout circle in the front door so that you can leave a moderate size lens on the front standard.

[jnantz]

have fun frank
5x7 is a nice format ..

[ghostcount]

...they will intentially walk by the camera and wave into the lens. The first time I saw it the only thing I thought was WTF? Wife was laughing, she made the connection much faster than I.

Erick


Funny!!! :D

[David Hedley]

Thanks everyone. Too late for me now. I got offered a good deal on that old whole plate 5x7 metal Toyo, the early one. The one I said I didn't want to consider... and I bought it anyway ;-)

Some of us have been looking for the 5x7 back for that Toyo for years! If it's the original back, and if you decide it's not for you, please let me know.

[Frank Petronio]

Haha why would I ever sell just the 5x7 back to what is a great lightweight 5x7 camera? That's like asking for an arm or a leg!

[David Hedley]

I did mean both camera and back, Frank! Anyway, I hope you enjoy using it - I like it in 4x5.