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renes
11-Jul-2010, 03:46
Anyone using Adolux APH 09 with 120 Tri-X 320 or Plus-X 125?

What developing time would you recommend and what dilution you find the best?
(no info on Digitaltruth about this)

How do you compare it to D-76?

Thanks.

IanG
11-Jul-2010, 04:21
This is Rodinal, the trade name is still owned by Agfa, but was registered fraudulently by J&C in the US. It's still made at the original plant by the same people but the company is now independent of Agfa and has no rights to use the Rodinal name,

Rodunal is a great developer for slower films, but D76 is probably better for Tri-X

Ian

renes
13-Jul-2010, 09:53
Thanks Ian.

Why it's not recommended for faster films?

IanG
14-Jul-2010, 00:02
It's tends to give a bit more grain with faster films, some love it and for LF work that wouldn't be an issue.

Ian

searover
19-Jul-2010, 15:24
Has anyone used APH-09 with ADOX CHS 50 (or Elfe 50) in 4x5?
I am wondering about dilution I should start with.
Shooting mainly landscapes & nature now with a little portrait work thrown in.
John

IanG
19-Jul-2010, 23:04
Yes in the past I've used Rodinal with EFKE (Adox CHS) films with great results. I used 1+50 and it gave great results.

Ian

renes
21-Jul-2010, 13:14
BTW, there are 3 rodinal developers you can buy now: R09, Agfa Rodinal, Adolux APH 09... did you find any differences in the images they produce?

Philippe Grunchec
22-Jul-2010, 01:33
... and Adox Adonal (Fotoimpex)!

IanG
22-Jul-2010, 05:06
BTW, there are 3 rodinal developers you can buy now: R09, Agfa Rodinal, Adolux APH 09... did you find any differences in the images they produce?


Adolux APH R09 is the Calbe (formerly part of Agfa-Orwo) version of Rodinal which is slightly different, a lower pH 11.8 instaed of 14, it's recently been made slightly more concentrated so that the Dilutions are now equivalent. It's based on the pre-WWII Agfa R09 (Rodinal) formulae.

Some German photographers prefer this version, so Mirko at Fotoimpex sells both.

Ian

renes
25-Jul-2010, 12:27
Adolux APH R09 is the Calbe (formerly part of Agfa-Orwo) version of Rodinal which is slightly different, a lower pH 11.8 instaed of 14, it's recently been made slightly more concentrated so that the Dilutions are now equivalent. It's based on the pre-WWII Agfa R09 (Rodinal) formulae.

Some German photographers prefer this version, so Mirko at Fotoimpex sells both.

Ian

I have not found explanations (or comparisons) why do some prefer APH R09 to Rodinal or to R09 "One shot" regaring the look they produces.

David Hedley
1-Feb-2011, 08:08
I used TMax 100 and Rodinal 1+50 as a standard film developer combination about ten years ago, and then moved to Ilford Delta 100 and PMK Pyro for various reasons. I’ve just bought a quantity of TMax 100, and would like to revisit Rodinal. I’m struggling, however, to understand the differences between R09 (http://www.silverprint.co.uk/ProductByGroup.asp?PrGrp=5014), Adonal (http://www.adox.de/english/ADOLUX/ADOLUX/ADONAL/ADONAL.html) and Adolux APH09 (http://www.adox.de/english/ADOLUX/ADOLUX/ADOLUX/APH09.html).

First, are RO9 and Adonal identical products, that would be near identical to the Agfa Rodinal that I was using 10 – 12 years ago? Googling seems to indicate that a&o produced RO9 from approx. 2006 – 2008, until Adox acquired the rights and produced Adonal. If that’s true, then I don’t understand why Silverprint is currently selling RO9, and Fotoimpex is currently selling Adonal.

Second, the bottle of both RO9 and Adonal looks similar to the old Agfa Rodinal bottle, but the Fotoimpex page for Adonal seems to indicate that it is the same as the Agfa Rodinal formula until a change in 2004. If so, should I be using this, rather than either RO9 or Adonal?

I’m sure there are some simple answers to the above – and if you know, I’m interested, so that I buy the right thing.

Jiri Vasina
1-Feb-2011, 08:57
I have used Rodinal (and previously also Fomadon R09) on almost all my films, from the slowest ones to the fastest:

* Adox CHS 25 (both in sheets and rolls) - wonderful, with nice smooth tones
* Wephota NP 15 (ISO 25) - very nice
* Kodak Tech-Pan - no grain at all, so smooooooth, so sharp

all the films in between (Fomapan 100, Fomapan 200, Ilford FP4+, Wephota NP22,...)

to the fast ones:
* Ilford Delta 3200, even at EI 6400 - rolls developed in Rodinal - yes the grain is very visible, but somehow went well with the scenes (jazz performances in bars)
* Ilford HP5+ pushed up to EI 2000 and EI 3200 - in some instances the results seemed to be better than Delta 3200. Again, the grain is more pronounced, clearly visible, but the structure (and distribution) of the grain is not that bad...

Should you be interested in my times as a starting point for your developments, I'll look them up...

Jiri

David Hedley
3-Feb-2011, 00:31
Jiri - thanks, that would be of interest.

I'm still interested in understanding the differences (if any) between between R09, Adonal and Adolux APH09 - anyone know?

Jiri Vasina
3-Feb-2011, 01:48
David, here you go

all my processing (except for Kodak Technical Pan and Wephota NP22 in 3 1/4 x 4 1/4" size) is done in Jobo print drums rolled on Unicolor roller base - continuous agitation. All times are for N development, exposed at said EI as measured by my Minolta exposure meter. My standard dilution for Rodinal is 1:50, and I try to develop at 20C

Adox CHS 25 @ EI 25 - 10:00min
Fomapan 100 @ EI 64 - 10:30min
Fomapan 200 @ EI 125 - 18:00min
Ilford FP4+ @ EI 125 - 16:00min
Ilford HP5+ @ EI 400 - 17:00min
Wephota NP15 @ EI 25 - 10:30min

Wephota NP22 @ EI 100 stand development in Rodinal 1:100 25:00min

I did not arrive at my times by any scientific testing, or have not used a densitometer. Those are just times that provide me with a negative film that I'm able to scan well, where the histogram shows adequate distribution with very low amount of values near the ends. (Prior to any adjustments and for a balanced scene with enough shadow/midtone/highlight areas). As always said use my times only as starting point for your personal values.

And regarding the difference between Rodinal and various other R09 developers: from what I remember, Agfa Rodinal is a quite old developer, prepared before/during the WWII. After the division of Germany (into Western and Eastern), the know-how or recipe for Rodinal was both in the hands of Agfa, and of Orwo factory (which was continuing of Agfa factory in Eastern Germany). Because of patent and IP rights, Agfa continued to use the Rodinal name, Orwo used R09 name.

IP and patent rights were not honored in Eastern block, so photochemical factories also in other countries (of Eastern block) started producing their own variants of R09 - hence Fomadon R09 (Czech version), Adonal (Croatian???) and there might be others.

Agfa supposedly did some further modification and fine tuning in the Rodinal recipe after the aforementioned split, so the Agfa Rodinal was supposed to be better/more advanced than the R09 variants.

(from my personal tests, the same film exposed of the same scene, developed in Rodinal 1:50 and R09 1:40 for the same time show similar tonality (I would even say "same"), but the grain is slightly more pronounced in R09).

I don't know what happened to the recipe in the past years when Agfa's stock and factory was bought by Calbe (I think??) - according to which recipe it is prepared. Because half a year ago I have bought a 500ml bottle of Agfa Rodinal, last month I have gone to buy another - and the bottle is visually the same, only this time labeled R09 (and in small letters on the bottom: produced according to Agfa Rodinal recipe - or something similar - I'm not at home to check on the bottle, will do it in the evening).

Jiri

Jiri Vasina
3-Feb-2011, 10:00
So, I don't have the previous (my last) Agfa Rodinal bottle... the new one I have is labeled "R09 ONE SHOT B&W FILM DEVLOPER" (yes, even with the "e" in the developer omitted...) where there was "Agfa Rodinal" previously. And in small letters: "Produced as Rodinal by Connect Chemicals Production & Services GmbH, Vaihingen/Enz, Germany, for compard KG..."

Therefore I don't know what is the current status of Rodinal/R09 developers.

(And the current R09 bottle behaves exactly as Agfa Rodinal, not as Fomadon R09)

Jiri

John Cahill
21-Feb-2011, 00:06
So, I don't have the previous (my last) Agfa Rodinal bottle... the new one I have is labeled "R09 ONE SHOT B&W FILM DEVLOPER" (yes, even with the "e" in the developer omitted...) where there was "Agfa Rodinal" previously. And in small letters: "Produced as Rodinal by Connect Chemicals Production & Services GmbH, Vaihingen/Enz, Germany, for compard KG..."

Therefore I don't know what is the current status of Rodinal/R09 developers.

(And the current R09 bottle behaves exactly as Agfa Rodinal, not as Fomadon R09)

Jiri
**********
I used Rodinal with ADOX KB-14 when that film was still produced in BRD Germany after Herr Dr. Schleussner sold out to Dupont. The Rodinal came from BRD Germany as well. With faster films, many users here would mix the stock solution in a sodium sulfite solution (heresy!!) to reduce the apparent grain.
In the mid or late 1970s, Rodinal disappeared from the USA market for a time; then re-appeared in bottles Marked Made in USA. That version seemed, to my unscientific eye, to have less contrast than the previous German-made stuff. When German-made became available (still W. German) it still seemed 'weaker'' than hitherto.

Now it has become a case of so many choices, as you have pointed out. I have tested RO9 and have been tempted to use the old sodium-sulfite trick to reduce apparent grain. Others have told me to use Ascorbic Acid, instead. Darn, life can be complicated, sometimes.

John

BTW, if any one desires a real treat, look at Jiri's website. His black and white work reminds me of one of my favorite photographers of a by-gone era, his countryman, Josef Sudek.

barnacle
23-Apr-2011, 12:50
Jiri - as I happened to be visiting in Berlin this week, I treated myself to a box of CHS-50 and a bottle of APH-09 from Photoimpex.

Looking at your numbers, ten minutes seems to be a good starting point? Developing six 5*4 at a time in a daylight tank; tetanal wash/harden for a couple of minutes and then fix. As you mention, I'd be looking to scan the negatives.

Neil