Seeking real world experence on Betterlight scanner backs

[Eirik Berger]

First, I never thought I should write such a post after being a die hard film user throuh the digital revolution the last decade. But here I am :)

I use LF in the field mainly, often on long hikes. I have a Toyo 45CF in a Tamrac Expedition 8, with a neat set of lenses, film holders, rollfilmholders (6x9 and 6x17), filter system. It all fits in there and have served me well for years. For studio and reproduction work I use a Toyo GII , hopefully Kumars lens board adapter arrive soon so I can change lenses between the systems without removing the lens board from the lens.

Even if I have scanners (if I just could find that ColorQuartet dongle after I moved to a new house) I have been considering a digital LF workflow for my landscape work, and of course for studio and reproduction where such backs works well.

But I would appreciate if Betterlight users on this forum would share their experiences of working with these backs in the field. Even if there are several older and used backs on e**y from time to time, I think I would go for a new one.
The Model 6000E-HS i expensive ($9495), but I might defend the expense with the commercial work I do. But if I did such an investment it would be to also use it in the field. How is it to use these backs in the field?

[Oren Grad]

Jim Collum, who has posted many examples of his work here and over at GetDPI, has extensive field experience with a Better Light back.

[sanking]

I understand that some of the early scanning backs linear (not tri-linear) that made three exposures through Red, Green and Blue filters. Does anyone know where one could pick up one of these early backs? I assume there would be a considerable saving compared to the current backs that use the 8000 dpi Kodak tri-linear CCD.

Sandy King

[erie patsellis]

Sandy, the earlier Dicomed Field Pro back I have typically costs well under $1k. Even budgeting for the $300 firmware upgrade (to give you access to the tone map and eliminate the serial connection) and upgrading the original 1gb SCSI drive to 9gb, mine will still be under that amount. I still shoot lots of film, but it gives me one more option to have available when the final output needs to be digital (as well as working wonders with the RB67 adapter I built, 6k x 6k digital files!!!)

The tri filter approach isn't any more convenient, the likelyhood of finding a Sinar Expolux Shutter w/filters that still works, and will likely continue is very slim.

[Peter Mounier]

... How is it to use these backs in the field?

I see two main drawbacks to using it in the field. One is the limitation to 1/8th sec. exposure time per line. That's the longest exposure possible. If you want more depth of field than you can get with 1/8th sec., you'll have to up the ISO, which, like film, gets pretty noisy with high a ISO. The other is having to scan a scene to capture your image, rather than shooting one exposure. There are thousands of scans lines in a scene you're shooting. If you're shooting anything that's moving, it may be a problem because each line scanned will show your subject in a different position. There are some interesting examples of this on the Betterlight website...
http://www.betterlight.com/misuse_feature/misuse.html

Other than those things, the only other drawback is the extra equipment you'll be carrying. That will include the scan back, the cables, the battery, a computer, and you may also want an extra laptop battery or a way to charge your battery in the field.

Peter

[williamtheis]

there are good things and bad. one interesting thing is to do a capture in infrared and one in visible then in photoshop use the luminosity of the infrared and the color from the visible = "color infrared photo"!!!

the scans are unbelieveable when they work. I think the clarity, resolution, and color are much better than an 8x10 chrome (which I also shoot) but when the wind blows the artifacts are "interesting" (meaning you will have to do a bit of retouching for the fringing since the 3 colors are NOT in registration simultaneously during the scan).

low light is a problem; you get noise and long exposure times... and there is extra weight (make sure you get the USB and not the SCSI version). check out Renaissance photo for backpack: they have a custom designed case for BetterLight. I can post pictures...

also the sensor is more like 3"x4" instead of 4"x5" so your lenses all are a bit longer than you are used to

bottom line: I really really like the Betterlight. maybe there are DSLRs out there that compete in the same price range but I am addicted to large format and this is about the best way to get digital.

[Dave Hally]

I have a little experience with an older Dicomed back and my Toyo 45A. This back uses an older Mac book that has the required SCSI connection (for that back). It is finicky, and a pain, but it works. A caution about stability- if you do any kind of odd setups, out in the field, such as on rocks, or having the legs at different angles on at different heights, then be very carefull about not having the tether cables pull the camera over, it can happen as you turn to turn on the scanner control box. DAMHIK
Dave

[Jim collum]

i've had a Betterlight since 2001. The only time it's ever been in the shop is for upgrade (to Super6k and USB box). I'm not very 'delicate' with my equipment, and I've used it exclusively in the field (and in some pretty harsh conditions... extreme humidity and heat in Angkor and Thailand). Wind is probably my biggest enemy.. but not because of blowing leaves (motion artifacts are pretty easy to fix.. or left alone as aesthetically decided). Vibration in the camera can be the biggest problem. Wind blowing against the bellows can cause a rippling effect that is evident thru the entire image. As mentioned before.. low light is also a problem.. which can result in very long scans. Almost all of my work is done in overcast conditions, or before the sun rises. I usually carry a filmholder or two with film for conditions that don't work well with the back... but since I shoot a lot in IR mode (without the filter)... you end up being able to shoot in very low light with reasonable (1-2 min) scan times.

It has excellent dynamic range and captures true (non-interpolated) color and detail. If anyone ends up in the Santa Cruz, Ca. area, and wants to go for a shoot in the field to see how it works, let me know..always happy to take it shooting

http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/1/2/20100706_fallcreek_019a.jpg


http://www.jcollum.com/fm/2005_10_12_bl_angkor_011-cvt2_filtered.jpg

[Jim collum]

with pano adapter

http://www.jcollum.com/fm/waves.jpg


with cooke
http://www.jcollum.com/fm/20090513_Alviso_005a.jpg

[B.S.Kumar]

Hey Eirik,

Sorry, I didn't see this post earlier. I've owned a Betterlight since 2005, and it's my first choice, if conditions permit. I used the Betterlight for my Shodoshima temple project here: http://www.bskumarphotography.com/landscape.html Many of the architecture and interior photos in my portfolio were also taken with the Betterlight, with no additions to the existing light. I've used it in temperatures from 0 to 40C and humidity of 95% without a problem.

I think most questions have been answered in the earlier posts, though I'm sure all of us would love to know how Jim finds motion artifacts an "easy fix".

I use an iBook G4 in the field, but a newer netbook is a good deal smaller and lighter, with excellent battery life. The Betterlight lithium battery lasts at least a whole day, so that's not really a problem.

William, by Renaissance Photo do you mean the RPT Backpacker system? I didn't find it on their website. Can you please post a photo of your backpack with the Betterlight in it?

Kumar

[routlaw]

I don't often post on this forum but just ran across this thread and thought I might also shed some light and a slightly different point of view in some areas though my experience in using the BL has been much shorter than either Jim or Kumars (Nov 08).

Regarding weight; with well chosen gear it is possible to trim the weight down to approximately what a fully loaded 4x5 film setup would be assuming a dozen ± 4x5 film holders. Remember no one makes ready loads any longer. Laptops exist in the 1 lb range albeit expensive. You will pay a premium for trimming this weight down however, ie carbon fiber tripods, lightweight and rigid heads, etc etc. Just as problematic as weight are all the necessary cables one has to use in the field, and this will take some getting used to believe me.

Wind and other things moving; yes it is an issue and can be a real problem though in most cases with good post production techniques much if not all artifacts can be eliminated, examples to follow. There are times when I just refuse to bring out the BL/LF setup due to wind, simply more trouble than its worth here in the northern rockies. But much to my surprise one can use the system successfully in far windier conditions than I would have ever thought before adopting the BL.

Focal length multiplier; figure 1.25x or in other words a 100 mm lens becomes a 125, a 75 becomes a 94 etc. Make sure you have a camera that can easily use wider lenses and also that has a bellows that DOES NOT leak infra red. Many a great other wise LF field camera are not usable due to this issue.

I would not recommend the "E" version of the scan back for field work. In the field you will really appreciate the Super 6K-2 chip, twice as sensitive, higher ISO, better dynamic range, less shadow noise and more versatile in the long run IMO.

Other considerations. Personally if the conditions are difficult, ie wind, low light levels the heck with it I will often scan/capture at 50% maybe slightly more resolution. I have still yet to see any other camera system deliver more "integrity" of the data than the BL scan backs even at only 50% resolution. Scan times are dramatically cut shorter, dynamic range is increased and shadow noise dramatically decreased even with high ISO settings when scanning this way. Besides not all images are always going to get printed mural size anyway.

Ok here are some more samples:

Easy mid afternoon capture, light wind, b&w conversion in PP: ISO 200, 120 sec line time @ F16 @ approximately half a minute.

2nd Image: ISO 600, 50% resolution scan, @ F11, 1/30th sec line time for about 3 minutes. The light level was very low, this was pushing the envelop but have printed this image @ 42 inches long dimension @ 100 ppi (not a misprint) and it looks awesome better than anything I could get out of an equivalent 12 mp DSLR for sure. It gets mushed up here on the web compared to looking at the full file.

3rd Image: 100% scan, ISO 200, 1/120th sec line time @ F16 for a total of about half a minute. Suffice it to say the dynamic range to fully capture this scene is extreme, the BL handled with headroom to spare.

4th Image: ISO 1200, 1/60th sec line time @ F16, 50% resolution, for about half a minute and yes it was windy.

Hope this helps with your decision.

Rob

[msk2193]

Rob,

Do you scan against the direction of the wind?

Do you have any additional tools for your laptop (table / screen cover / etc) to make viewing easier?

Thanks in advance

[routlaw]

Rob,

Do you scan against the direction of the wind?

Do you have any additional tools for your laptop (table / screen cover / etc) to make viewing easier?

Thanks in advance

Honestly I don't think I have ever given it any thought regarding the direction of the wind, could be me but it just seems impractical to think in those terms while working the setup. Not sure what it would accomplish anyway.

I do use my focus cloth to also cover a 13" Mac Book Pro if its an extremely sunny day though with that screen if necessary you can forego the use of it. I also carry a smallish piece of the rubberized shelf liner material with crisscrossed pattern to put under my laptop so its not sliding out of control. For now thats about it.

Hope this helps.

Rob

[msk2193]

Thanks Rob

[VictoriaPerelet]

Even if I have scanners (if I just could find that ColorQuartet dongle after I moved to a new house) I have been considering a digital LF workflow for my landscape work, and of course for studio and reproduction where such backs works well.



There is a trick to use ColorQuartet on Win PC without dongle. Probably posting it on the net is not good, but I can PM. company is out of business long time ago anyway.



I have question for people who use SCSI Phase One scan backs in the field. We have couple in studio and they work fine with Windows PC and SCSI card and cable.

I also have USB/SCSI dongle Adaptec USBXchange (that supposed to work with this back) but have no luck making any of my laptops to recognize back.

Please tell me what laptop configuration can be used in the field.

[erie patsellis]

Victoria,
I had very good luck with an adaptec PCMCIA card from Adaptec with my StudioKit on a PC laptop, as well as a Pismo G4. Depending on what laptop you have, I'm pretty sure that Computer Deli has expresscard and pcmcia scsi and firewire cards. At least last time I was up there. Which backs are you using?

erie