BW reversal process

[bluenote]

My interest in reversal BW process has started when I saw medium format slides projected on the wall. Do you have any experiences with this process?
I have found reversal kit chemistry for T MAX 100 ( http://www.photoformulary.com/DesktopModules/StoreProductDetails.aspx?productID=77&tabid=9&tabindex=2&categoryid=0&selection=0&langId=0&Search=reversal ) - as the only available.
I know this topic is related more to MF than LF - anyway thanks for any comments.


Cheers, Jiri

[IanG]

Foma make a Reversal kit and also a reversal film on a clear base. They are based ? let me think ?

Oh yes :D Králové (ČZ)

I've done a lot of research into Reversal processing and have also posted many formulae Agfa, Gevaert, Pathe, Bauchet, Kodak, Orwo etc on APUG.

Ian

[georg s]

Jiri, maybe there's a solution next to your door - Foma does make a B&W-reversal kit. At least it's offered here in germany (sold here http://www.fotoimpex.de/shop/fotochemie/schwarzweisschemie/filmentwickler/umkehrentwicklungssatz-foma-8xkb-2xd8-2x-ds8-1x16mm.html for instance). It's not exactly cheap.
Hope this helps, georg.

[IanMazursky]

I have done it a bunch of times on tmax 100. The slides were amazing!!
Its something to behold, even a dull image looks great as a B&W slide.

I made my own reversal chemistry from published formulae. But a word of caution, sulfuric acid is dangerous.
Nitrile gloves, goggles, exhaust fan and a organic vapor mask are a must. Other then that, you can get everything from the Formulary.
Also remember to not splash any water in the bulb used for reversal. It could explode!!

Im going to get back into it and try to weed out the light reversal step. Its a real pain, especially now that i haves a jobo. No way to stop it.
I bought some stannous chloride (chemical fogging agent used in E6 reversal bath) a while back and i hope to use it instead of a light reversal.

I have attached the formula that i have cobbled together. I cant remember exactly where i got it or which parts came from where.
Its a word doc that i had to zip. I rated Tmax 100 at iso 40-50. 10 minutes 68F.

Have fun with it!

[Atul Mohidekar]

Few years back I got some Delta 100 MF rolls developed from Dr5 (http://dr5.com/). The 6x9 transparancies look stunning on a light table!


// Atul

[Sascha Welter]

Wouldn't a contact negative on some film with a transparent base work pretty well and not risk ruining your shot?

[IanMazursky]

Probably but not as fun! I did a few of those contact negs and i didn't like them.
They didn't seem as brilliant as the B&W reversal, but i didn't do any real tests so it could just be me.
Its worth a shot if you have a few hours to kill.
Btw, If someone has a formula with a chemical reversal step, id love to pick your brain.

[IanG]

Wouldn't a contact negative on some film with a transparent base work pretty well and not risk ruining your shot?

Reversal processed B&W has a far longer tonal range, some of the highest quality B&W prints I've ever seen were while at University in the 70's and a Ph.D. students research project shooting reversal B&W then printing by Reversal as well using B&W paper, his work would have been funded by one of the manufacturers.

So no it's not even going to get you in the same ball park.

Ian

[IanG]

Would someone comment on the pros and cons of reversal processing when the film is being developed to scan? I am interested in whether there would be more or less grain, less or more dynamic range, less or more film speed, less or more sharpness, etc?

Sandy King

It could well be all Pro's Sandy in terms of overall image quality, a higher dynamic range, excellent sharpness, film speed can be adjusted.

The downside, the Cons is the need for tight process control and a much longer over all process cycle, and also a need for tighter exposure control, but you should be there anyway.

Ian

[Helen Bach]

You can get extra benefits if you tailor the reversal process for scanning only - you can forget about the need to make something that looks good to the eye. This means that achieving the greatest possible density range is not necessary - you only need to achieve a density range that is a better match to the scanners range than most negatives would be without over-development. The exposure/first development stage does not have to be as close to the film's inherent DMin (film base + unavoidable fog) as when making a slide for viewing - ie you can pull back a little on the first developer. This all helps to improve the possible dynamic range.

There is no need to control the image colour. This is quite a big benefit. It means that you can use plain sodium sulphide as the second developer, with no need for a reversal exposure. This results in quite fine grain. The formation of the final image is separated from the initial development/image amplification stage.

[IanG]

Helen, I found a 1928 suggestion quite recently for even finer grain which used a 2nd developer of Pyrogallol & Pyrocatechin to give a stained image which is then bleached to remove silver leaving only the stain. It was recommended for Cine film.

Ian

[Lachlan 717]

Helen,

Given your comment on 2nd Dev't, would Ortho be better than Pan insomuch as you could red safelight it?

[Helen Bach]

Ian, Lachlan, Hi.

Ian, interesting. It's like a one-layer E-6? Not being concerned about the final image colour, or whether it is silver or dye, does open up possibilities. Back in the day I did try DiXactol once as a second dev, but did not then bleach the silver. So many possibilities, so little time.

Lachlan, I think that the choice of ortho or pan should be mainly based on the spectral response you require for the image. Second development is usually to finality (or very close) and I've never tried alternatives to developing to finality in any methodical fashion. For both personal and commercial work I shoot LF colour almost exclusively now (E-6 for commercial, C-41 for personal) therefore, no matter how interested I am in the reversal process, my experience is not current and I think that others are more able to answer.

Best,
Helen

[Brian Ellis]

I've used the TMax kit a couple times when submitting b&w slides for exhibits. It worked well but I'd suggest waiting to use it until you have a large number of negatives to do. The working solutions from the kit are pretty large as I recall. I had only a few negatives for submission so most of the chemicals ended up going to waste.

[bluenote]

Well, I have just received the chemistry from Photographers formulary ( reversal kit for T max ) and as I can see in instructions there is a big fun for me ahead . :(
Do you guys have any experiences with RE- EXPOSING the film with bulb 150W ?
This is what I have to do and I really do not know how to do that ...
thank you ,

[IanG]

The re-exposure depends on the way you're processing. In a Paterson type reel the film can be left in the reel during re-exposure, hold the reel about 50cm from the lamp, rotating so the film gets fully exposed, usually about 2 minutes. You must be careful not to splash the bulb with water droplets.

With care the film can be taken from the reel and exposed by passing in front pf the bulb again about 50cm from the bulb. If 5x4 in a Jobo then again expose with the film in the spirals.

What you don't want is gross over exposure which can happen with direct sunlight.

Ian

[bluenote]

The re-exposure depends on the way you're processing. In a Paterson type reel the film can be left in the reel during re-exposure, hold the reel about 50cm from the lamp, rotating so the film gets fully exposed, usually about 2 minutes. You must be careful not to splash the bulb with water droplets.

With care the film can be taken from the reel and exposed by passing in front pf the bulb again about 50cm from the bulb. If 5x4 in a Jobo then again expose with the film in the spirals.

What you don't want is gross over exposure which can happen with direct sunlight.

Ian

Thanks Ian,


am I working in room light with the bulb ? Bathroom shade for example ?

[IanG]

Room light's fine, diffuse daylight's fine, just no direct sunlight.

Ian

[bluenote]

Room light's fine, diffuse daylight's fine, just no direct sunlight.

Ian

Do you have any of your bw slides scanned ? Can you post one ?
Has the re-exposition fatal effect on the results? I mean, I would not moving the bulb in front of the film call " exact process.

[IanG]

I don't have any online, 95% of my more recent B&W slides where copies of my exhibition prints for presentation in slide form to Galleries etc, usually 6x7's.

The re-exposure is not that critical as long as there's sufficient, the gross over exposure is not remotely close to a few minutes exposure to a 150w bulb, and is more likely to happen with sunlight or light with a high blue/UV content which no normal tungtsen bulbs give.

Ian

[IanMazursky]

Ian, Lachlan, Hi.

Ian, interesting. It's like a one-layer E-6? Not being concerned about the final image colour, or whether it is silver or dye, does open up possibilities. Back in the day I did try DiXactol once as a second dev, but did not then bleach the silver. So many possibilities, so little time.

Lachlan, I think that the choice of ortho or pan should be mainly based on the spectral response you require for the image. Second development is usually to finality (or very close) and I've never tried alternatives to developing to finality in any methodical fashion. For both personal and commercial work I shoot LF colour almost exclusively now (E-6 for commercial, C-41 for personal) therefore, no matter how interested I am in the reversal process, my experience is not current and I think that others are more able to answer.

Best,
Helen

Hi Helen,

This process uses regular film like Tmax100 or most other B&W can be adapted with some formula tweaks. Tmax is nice because the base is clearer then something like trix.
You can also do sheets if you want to attempt it. One day ill perfect a chemical redevelopment.

Anyway, The process is silver only, no dyes to fade overtime. Color is another interesting subject.
You can tone the slides or add a few things to the 2nd developer to tone. I have it written down somewhere.

2nd dev time isn't as critical but it can have an effect IIRC. Its always best to maintain a consistent processing schedule.
For the redevelopment i used a 150w bulb in a reflector (home depot style).
I placed the reels in a tray of water that just covered them. Its important not to let the film dry out.
Then for 2-3 minutes i would rotate them and then turn them over and repeat. Once that fun part was over it was back into the tank for the rest.

Best,
Ian

[Darren H]

I'll second the suggestion of trying dr5. I know they are in Colorado and you are in the Czech Republic, but with international shipping not all that unreasonable for a larger order it might be worth it.

A B+W chrome is fantastic to look at. I had used the old Scala but I find dr5 a better image. I have just started working with Efke PL 25 film in the 4x5 format and having them processed in dr5.

You can see a few of them here on my Flickr page.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50965440@N08/sets/72157624177345697/

Positives are much easier to work with since I scan and do not do wet darkroom.

No matter how you try it I think you will really like the results.


dr5 lab website
www.dr5.com

[bluenote]

Hi,

I have some 6 rolls of Kodak Tmax 100 developed in reversal process. The Photographers Formulary chemistry works fine, results are great.
As far sa my experiences goes, negatives acts similar to color slides. They are very sensitive to overexposure. For next rolls, I am going to correct the exposition -1EV.
Here are raw scans, no corrections.
The "hardest part" of the process is mixing the chemistry.
I strongly recommend not to do this in kitchen.
Reversal process itself is no problem.
One kit is enough to make 8 rolls of film.

http://www.hauserphotography.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/2_bw_slide_scanned_2400dpi_48bit_RGB_Adobe-RGB.jpg
http://www.hauserphotography.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/bw_slide_scanned_2400dpi_48bit_RGB_Adobe-RGB.jpg