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View Full Version : Sinar Users - 90mm OK with standard bellows?



siloseven
15-Jun-2010, 10:23
I'm looking around for my first 4x5 camera at the moment and will probably get either a Sinar F1/F2 or a Horseman L. I've got a Caltar 90mm f6.8 on the way and I'm unsure whether wide angle bellows would be required to take advantage of the movements. I know a wide bellows would be better, but do the standard bellows at least allow a fair amount of shift?

It's likely that a set of wide bellows would be around 30% of the cost of camera itself so I need to know if I should budget for this.

Francisco J. FernŠndez
15-Jun-2010, 12:26
Hello.

With the Sinar F1 /F2 (also with the Horseman L) and with the lens of 90 mm, mounted in a plane plate is posible the focus to infinite distance, but are very limited movement.
For less infinite distance (10, 5, 3 or less meters) the posibility of movement is bigger.

With one recessed plate the posibilty of movement is bigger…but the best combination is with the angular bellow+recessed plate.
(sorry mi bad english).

Rick Olson
15-Jun-2010, 12:37
Siloseven,

I had a Sinar F and when I purchased a 90mm Nikon lens for it, I had to get a wide angle bellows in order to have movements. You can probably find a deal on eBay for one. I see them come up frequently.

siloseven
15-Jun-2010, 12:42
Thanks Francisco, that's pretty much what I suspected and I'm trying to find a camera that already has wide bellows fitted but there's not many for sale compared with those that come with standard bellows.

siloseven
15-Jun-2010, 12:49
Thanks Rick, there's one or two up for auction on US ebay at the moment but the shipping costs to the UK are very high. On the UK ebay site, they're all 'buy-it-now' for around £70/$100 - I can get a whole camera for about £200!:eek:

Drew Wiley
15-Jun-2010, 12:51
I found it difficult to use even a 120 with the standard bellows if rise was involved.
Bag bellows a must.

Ed Richards
15-Jun-2010, 13:06
You can use the bag bellows with up to a 240mm, as long as you are not focusing very close. I never used the regular bellows on my Sinar.

siloseven
15-Jun-2010, 13:22
cheers, I think the message is.........get bag bellows.

sanchi heuser
15-Jun-2010, 14:24
Sinar offers two different models of wideangle bellows for 4x5:
the 1 and the 2, the model 2 has a different design which allows more movements
compared to the model 1.
That will be important if you use 75 mm lens, 65mm or less!
If you say 90mm is enough wide than the model 1 makes will do it.

Here you can see on page 3-9 the two different models:
http://www.matrix.cz/profifoto/PDFS/Sinar_system_katalog.pdf


www.mrcad.co.uk has some used Sinar bag bellows from about 88 to 120 GBP.
They have no photos in their list but they will send you on demand.

Have fun

Clive Gray
15-Jun-2010, 14:45
It is possible to use the standard bag bellows even with a 47mm XL.

I like Mrcad however Peter Walnes has two bag bellows listed at the moment one for £29 and the other for £35.

sanchi heuser
15-Jun-2010, 15:07
It is possible to use the standard bag bellows even with a 47mm XL.

I like Mrcad however Peter Walnes has two bag bellows listed at the moment one for £29 and the other for £35.


That are good prices for a Sinar bag bellow.

47mm with the model 1 ?
OK, that's new for me that it works
so good. I only used the model 2.

Clive Gray
15-Jun-2010, 15:41
Originally Bag bellows 2 was intended for where people wanted to use a 65mm db mounted lens with the Sinar shutter, I'm sure it would make life easier with the shorter focal lengths and I see to remember seeing Rick Denney post that he finds them preferable however it is definitely (http://www.flickr.com/photos/abbandon/4590296586/sizes/l/) possible to get away with the bag bellow 1 with the 47XL not that it was really needed for that shot.


Peter Walnes often has good prices on LF gear, I generally glance at most of the UK dealers listings fairly often to see if they have anything interesting and can in a general way usually remember what they have in stock.

While I like and regularilly visit and buy from Mrcad their online stock list can be a little incomplete ... they generally have far more than is listed.

rdenney
15-Jun-2010, 19:13
Yes, you can use the standard bag bellows with a 47 mounted on a flat board, but you will have to be very careful that the bellows are straight and not pinched between the standards, or they will be pushed apart. With a metering back, you might need a recessed board, too. But the Sinar F did not come with a metering back, so that is not an issue in this case.

With the Wide Angle Bellows 2, you can use a 47 on a flat board with no worries or fiddling, and retain full movements (or at least as full as it gets with standards of that size).

The WA Bellows 2 will accommodate as long a lens as will the standard bag bellows, and certainly up into the normal range. I carry a conventional bellows to use as a compendium shade, but have it if I need it for 240mm or 12" lenses.

You cannot use rise or fall using standard bellows and a 90mm lens. Tilts and swings are possible, however.

Rick "who owns all of the above" Denney

siloseven
15-Jun-2010, 23:00
Thanks for the tip about Peter Walnes, he's quite a bit cheaper than anywhere else I've seen