Anyone have a schematic for an Ilex No.5 Universal Synchro Shutter?

[djcphoto]

Hi all,

I recently bought a 14" Commercial Ektar in an Ilex No.5 Universal Synchro shutter and the shutter has a couple of issues. Before I send it off for repair I'd just like to see if there is anything obviously out of place as it looks like it may have been subjected to some DIY repair attempts in the past!

I've successfully worked on a few shutter types in the past but have never had a No.5 Ilex before. If anyone has a schematic, or even a photo of the innards of this shutter, I would very much appreciate it!

Cheers,

Dave

[BrianShaw]

If it has been subjected to some unsuccesful D-I-Y repairs in the past, are you sure you want to subject it to additional D-I-Y repairs? ILEX are fairly straightforward mechanisms, give or take a few things that can go wrong if one doesn't know what they are doing. My suggestion would be to take it to an experienced repair shop without further tinkering.

[BrianShaw]

Oh... one more thought...

I recently acquired a 12" Comm Ektar and it has quickly become my favorite lens. If you haven't used one before, you might want to get yours in working condition ASAP. I'll bet you'll like it as much as I do.

[djcphoto]

Thanks for your comments and, yes, I can't wait to try out this lens! Anyway, I just want to make sure there is nothing obviously misplaced, bent, damaged or even missing that may be easily fixed (I am quite handy with the shutter types that I've worked on in the past). If not, obviously I will send it out. I agree that ignorant tinkering is not smart, but that's one of the reasons I wanted a schematic :)

Cheers,

Dave

[carverlux]

Dave,

There are at least four aspects to repairing any shutter, including the Ilex 5:

1. Proper disassembly and re-assembly. With extreme caution and care, this is not that hard and proper instructions may be helpful. There are loaded springs inside the shutter but they do not immediately fly open when you get the shutter cover apart if done slowly. So this is probably a medium- to low-risk activity.

2. Proper removal of old lubricants and re-lubrication of the correct parts. Again, with the right instructions, this is probably also not that difficult but will require some practice to do correctly. The trick is to do it judiciously without negatively impacting parts that you do not include to clean / lube. Choice of lube is also important. This is a medium risk activity.

3. You may need parts - most likely springs that are tired as they are between 40 to 60 years old. They are not that tricky to remove or replace, but it is not easy to find replacements that are fresh and to spec. Some tired springs, once messed with, lose even their tired shape and resilience and render themselves comepletely useless - meaning you can make a bad case worse. Without fresh springs, it is sometimes not possible to get the fast and intermediate speeds right no matter how you adjust the shutter. I know some shutter technicians make their own springs - and you can too, but you have to learn how. This, at least to me, is a high-risk activity.

4. You will need to adjust the shutter speeds. On the Ilex shutters including the 5, this is done by bending one lever and potentially filing or reshaping the shutter cam plate. As one of these two activities are irreversible, this is, again only to me, a high-risk activity.

Unfortunately, I do not have these instructions so I cannot illustrate my points of caution with visual evidence. However, if you plan to acquire more and more shutters, learning this can be fun and a skill well worth acquiring, as these oldtimers are simple and fun, and they really show how ingenious (and pragmatic) the original shutter designers were back in an industrial-age America. But if this is the only Ilex you plan to own, well - you can come to your own conclusions.

Good luck,
Carver

[djcphoto]

Thanks for the detailed reply Carver.

I have already cleaned and lubricated, so 1 and 2 are covered :) If anything needs replacing, then obviously this is not something I'll tackle myself. I've already identified the pin (lever) that may need bending slightly to adjust the speeds. The shutter does run, but speeds are way off.

My main worry is that, upon disassembly, I found a tiny screw rattling around inside and I would really like to identify where this belongs. I think I've figured it out, but wanted to check.

Anyway, I will persevere!

Thanks again,

Dave

[carverlux]

Dave,

The speeds being way off is most likely that the springs are off. The cam plate was fitted and adjusted when it was working with a brand new main spring and brand new slow gear train. These springs are likely off because the materials used to make them were of 40's vintage. Major advances in spring metallurgy never trickled to the Ilex unlike the Copals, Compurs and Prontors.

These are the finer and more challenging points of resurrecting an Ilex shutter that I have always left to experts because the spring rates are absolutely key to how it works.

Carver

[BrianShaw]

A loose screw, eh... I can relate to that. :D

Aside from size, and the non-synch differences, take a look at this:

http://pheugo.com/cameras/index.php?page=acme2

and the pic of Ilex Acme guts on the SK Grimes web site... if you haven't already.

Good luck.

[djcphoto]

Thanks, Carver. Unfortunately I think you may be right about the springs being tired/worn. And thanks for the links Brian. I'll take a closer look when I get home to the shutter this evening. Either way, I'm going to put it all back together and shoot with the lens this weekend. After all, the 'B' setting works fine :)

d