Jobo 2509-N: 6 sheets or only 4?

[Lachlan 717]

I'd like to get Users' opinion on whether it is better to only load 4 sheets, rather than the maximum 6, per development with the Jobo 2509-N drum.

I have seen mention of getting more consistent results with only 4; 2 on the inner most track and 2 on the outer most.

This question is specifically in relation to constant, machine agitation.

Thanks in advance,

[Eric Brody]

When I used the 2509, I used just four, never tested it to see the difference, if any.

[Daniel Stone]

I've just used 4, even Jobo recommends 4 instead of 6 :).

a friend told me about how some of his film stuck together when he processed 6 sheets together at a time, didn't turn out so well :(.

stick with 4 IMO

-Dan

[Lachlan 717]

I've just used 4, even Jobo recommends 4 instead of 6 :).

a friend told me about how some of his film stuck together when he processed 6 sheets together at a time, didn't turn out so well :(.

stick with 4 IMO

-Dan

A bird in the cab is worth 2 in the bar?

Looks like 4 it will be.

Thanks, guys.

[Jlentz]

I've always used 6 with B&W. Never had any problems.

[dave_whatever]

From what I've read the old wives tale about only using 4 sheets was based on the original 2509 reel, NOT the current redesigned 2509N reel with the extra side baffle pieces. Hence I've done 6 sheets of E6 in mine with no problems.

[georg s]

No problems here so far with 6 sheets of 9x12cm or 4x5 in the 2509n (black baffles attached) with rotary processing (B&W only).

[Cor]

Also for me no problem with 6 sheets in the 2509N reel with with the black baffles, when I used the 2509 I used only 4 sheets

But (hope you do not mind hijacking the thread a bit) I do have another problem at the edge of the negatives,: extra density and no density at the place were the negative touches the little small protruding clear rod.

Another member of this forum (with whom I communicated) has this problem too, Drew Saunders his image here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/drew_saunders/4372314436/
shows the problem I have, hope he does not mind ;-)..

It's seen on the right and left, about 5% from the top.

I do not have it always, and no clear relation with film, developer or speed used, maybe there is with the position, don't know

Any insight and perhaps solution appreciated!

Best,

Cor

[georg s]

Cor, I had similar marks with the 2509N too - but I thought I bend the negative (in the film-holder loading/unloading-process) to much and a „crack“ or something in the base caused the problem. This happened only once (the only time I've tried stand-development with the Jobo 2521) and the (rotary-) development seems to be even since then.
Please excuse my crude english, georg.

[Cor]

Thanks for the feedback, George. Not sure If it is caused by bending, the marks are at the exact place were this little white rod is. That said, I load directly onto the reel, I do not have the loading device

best,

Cor

[Paul Metcalf]

Six for color transparency, four for B&W negative ('cause it's the same area as one 8x10 sheet which is what I based my PMK testing on, and I'm too lazy to retest for six sheets of B&W negative). The six for color transparency matched the four cycles of Tetenal developer (per 500ml batch) which amounted to 24 sheets, or almost one box of readyloads (I frequently messed up one sheet or I'd bank one of the +/- exposure sheets if I already had a good exposure).

Make sure the spindle is inserted in the proper direction (black side of reel IIRC), else the reel will spin too freely inside tank and you'll get uneven development.

[Denis Pleic]

With Jobo 2509-N (new, redesigned, with black baffles/"flaps") I use 6 sheets, no problems whatsoever - both with B&W and with E6.
I did an E6 run last month, with three 2509-N reels with 6 sheets of Velvia 4x5 in each - without a glitch! I used "flaps"/baffles - they're supposed to improve the flow of chemicals and prevent the extra density or "no density" issues at the edges of sheets.

I also have a couple of older 2509 reels (not "N"!), and with those I use only 4 sheets - as recommended by Jobo and others.
In short, "4 sheets per reel" rule applies to older "non - N" Jobo reels.

[Paul Kierstead]

I also use 2509-N and have done lots of reels of 6 sheets, never noticed uneven development when properly loaded. I always use the baffles.

The only time I've had sheets stick together was when I loaded them incorrectly (one edge of neg in wrong slot). Generally this is easy to detect, so long as you aren't too tired.

[domaz]

I've done 6 with E-6 and B&W with Pyrocat HD. Never had a problem. I do slightly increase my B&W developer volume when running 6 sheets though- just to be safe.

[Matus Kalisky]

I've done 6 with E-6 and B&W with Pyrocat HD. Never had a problem. I do slightly increase my B&W developer volume when running 6 sheets though- just to be safe.


I have the same experience with Pyrocat HD (1:1:100). I just make sure I use enough volume per sheet. No problems yet. I use the smallest Jobo drum where just one 6-sheet holder fits (quite short drum)

[Lachlan 717]

Thanks for the feedback, George. Not sure If it is caused by bending, the marks are at the exact place were this little white rod is. That said, I load directly onto the reel, I do not have the loading device

best,

Cor

How are you developing? Rotary? Do to use the black scoop inserts?

For what it's worth, I finally got around to getting the film loader yesterday. First thoughts on it are that it will make loading SO easy!! I like that there is pressure on the loading slide that "clicks" it into place. I'm hoping to load some film with it in the next couple of days. I think that it'll really make processing a fast and easy thing. Suddenly seems that I'll be doing lots of processing!

[Cor]

Lachlan,

I use an older Jobo CPE2 with rotation either set to 1 (slow) for PyrocatHD or 2 (fast for Xtol) and I use the newer 2509 N reel with the black baffles

Best,

Cor

[Lachlan 717]

This is all great info; many thanks!!

However, this has lead to another question: can you please let me know your thoughts on which Pyro to use? I've been looking at the MC (not HD), but several have mentioned HD.

Also, what's the shelf life of unmixed Pyro? The reason I ask is I need to import it (if I don't mix myself), so don't want too much if it goes off or too little if it keeps!

Thanks.

[Cor]

I am not the expert, but form what I understand is that PyrocatMC has a slight edge over PyrocatHD in rotary processing. I have too limited experience to conclude that.

What I do know is that the MC version (in glycol) slowly turns tar black in colour, but it still functions ok.

The storage live in glycol is very long, without glycol in my hands: at least a year. Use small bottles (little air space) and cool /dark place to store and you should be fine

Best,

Cor

[BradS]

From what I've read the old wives tale about only using 4 sheets was based on the original 2509 reel, NOT the current redesigned 2509N reel with the extra side baffle pieces. Hence I've done 6 sheets of E6 in mine with no problems.

This is the fact. The instructions that come with the new 2509N reels say nothing about using only four. The black plastic 'V' shaped thingies correct the issue. If you do not use the black thingies, then only do four. If you have only four sheets to process...do only four. If you have six...do all six and use the black plastic things. It just works.

I've run several hundred sheets of 4x5 though my 2531/2509N tank and have never had a problem related to development. The loader base thingie is also indespensible IMO. I cannot imagine using this reel with out the loader base....but, some apparently are able to load it without...I haven't that much skill or patience.

EDIT: I always do six sheets at a time, use the black baffles and use 400ml of chemistry

[domaz]

I've run several hundred sheets of 4x5 though my 2531/2509N tank and have never had a problem related to development. The loader base thingie is also indespensible IMO. I cannot imagine using this reel with out the loader base....but, some apparently are able to load it without...I haven't that much skill or patience.

EDIT: I always do six sheets at a time, use the black baffles and use 400ml of chemistry

I can load the 2509 without a loader faster than a roll of 120 or 35mm. It's just a matter of getting a feel for it and learning to bend the film at the right angle.

[BradS]

I can load the 2509 without a loader faster than a roll of 120 or 35mm. It's just a matter of getting a feel for it and learning to bend the film at the right angle.

Like I said...some people can....I cannot.