Advice on flash equipment for 8x10 beginner

[Stephen Ahern]

Hi All - I'm just making the shift from 35mm to 8x10 and I'm using an old Deardorff wooden 8x10. I used a Vivitar 283 with my 35mm camera for years and I'm hoping I can get some advice on what kind of flash equipment I should be looking to use with the large format camera to give me the same kind of flexibility/results and any general advice on flash with large format. Thanks!

[cjbroadbent]

If you count on shooting wide open, swirly style, any old flash and an umbrella will do.
Shooting f45 - f64 with a single bounced or diffused source will set you back.
I had 15,000 Ws (Joules) on three heads and never managed f64 with Ektachrome. But then you may not be troubled by bellows factor and multiple planes of focus, moving people, steam and other unpleasant stuff.
At f45, a 10 second exposure with tungsten will save you many thousand dollars.

[Frank Petronio]

Why not use the 283 if you like the look of the light (!)? f/5.6 or f/8 works just as well for 8x10 as it does for 35mm.

But ~traditionally~ studio-orientated photographers will look towards heavy-duty professional AC strobe units many times more powerful and costly than a 283. Check out manufacturers like ProFoto, Dynalite, Speedotron, Broncolor, Elinchrom, Bowens, Calumet, Hensel, etc.

And then you'll discover this site: http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/ and probably buy a bunch of cheap White Lightning or AlienBee stuff.

[Walter Calahan]

Frank

You need to take a picture of me with my 8x10 and a Vivitar 283!!!!!!!!!!!!;)

[Ron Marshall]

Hi All - I'm just making the shift from 35mm to 8x10 and I'm using an old Deardorff wooden 8x10. I used a Vivitar 283 with my 35mm camera for years and I'm hoping I can get some advice on what kind of flash equipment I should be looking to use with the large format camera to give me the same kind of flexibility/results and any general advice on flash with large format. Thanks!

http://www.white-lightning.com/x3200.html

[Ron Marshall]

Hi All - I'm just making the shift from 35mm to 8x10 and I'm using an old Deardorff wooden 8x10. I used a Vivitar 283 with my 35mm camera for years and I'm hoping I can get some advice on what kind of flash equipment I should be looking to use with the large format camera to give me the same kind of flexibility/results and any general advice on flash with large format. Thanks!

http://www.white-lightning.com/x3200.html

[Stephen Ahern]

Thanks guys - I would love to continue with the Vivitar but I'll be using smaller apertures (f32/f45) so I guess this won't be an option. May have to look into the more expensive White Lightning option.

Just one more thing - I'm using a Kodak Commercial Ektar lens so is there anything I should be aware of in terms of the flash connection, what cable I would need etc. or will all modern flash lights connect to pretty much all lenses? Slipping the 283 onto my 35mm is about as technically advanced as I've gotten with flash.......

[Ron Marshall]

Also, if you are planning to shoot still lifes then you have the option of multiple pops with a less powerful strobe.

[Gem Singer]

Stephen,

The Vivitar 283 gives off a small rectangular pattern of light and uses a unique Vivitar connector to the flash.

It is kind of small to use with for 8x10.

The Kodak Commercial Ektar lens is mounted in a shutter that uses a two prong flash sync. connector.

You may experience difficulty finding a sync cord that will enable you to sync. the 283 flash to that shutter.

Call, or Email Jim, at Midwest Photo Exchange, and ask for his advice. He's very knowledgeable.

Midwest has a large stock of new and used lighting equipment.

[Frank Petronio]

You have a lot of homework to do and compared to the "grossness" of a bare 283 on Auto there is a lot to absorb.

Christopher's advice of using inexpensive hot lights and longer exposures is good in terms of figuring out what light looks like. Even with modeling lamps, strobe lighting is harder to "see" what you're doing, especially since you won't have Polaroid for testing.

A digital camera is very useful though....

The old Acme shutters use bi-post sync contacts - Paramount makes suitable cables but they are not something you can readily buy at your local camera shop.

[erie patsellis]

....The old Acme shutters use bi-post sync contacts - Paramount makes suitable cables but they are not something you can readily buy at your local camera shop.

not anymore, sadly. I feel really old when I think back not so long ago when you could buy photo bits and pieces at the local pusher's shop.

[mandoman7]

I agree with Frank and Christopher. If the idea is to learn about lighting; the effects of direction,specularity/diffusion, and multiple sources, then you're going to like working with tungsten or ambient sources much better.

[eddie]

i just got a bunch of speedotron stuff for almost nothing....heads, power source etc etc. now i have too much light for what i shoot!

keep an eye out for closing studios and the like. they sell their stuff real cheap.

i just moved "up" from some old photogenic lights....they were from the 30s or so i think.

i also got some wireless triggers...oh boy! what fun it is.

eddie

[dh003i]

What kind of sync cable would I need to buy for a Synchro-Compur Shutter?

[Peter De Smidt]

It all depends on what you're shooting, of course. If you're doing a still life, then most flashes will work as you can use multiple pops. In (or near) a studio, Speedotron Black line 2400 series packs work well and give a lot of light. There are a lot of accessories available, and since many studios use this equipment, there's lots of used equipment out there. In addition, Speedo stuff isn't unnecessarily complex, it's reliable, and there's plenty of places that fix them if needed.

[dh003i]

It seems like the Speedotron Black 2400 (http://www.adorama.com/SZ11254.html) line series packs are a kind of battery pack? If you're paying over $200 for it, why not use the Black Box (http://www.aljacobs.com/my_products/the_black_box_story.html)?

[Brian Stein]

What kind of sync cable would I need to buy for a Synchro-Compur Shutter? These should use the "standard" PC (prontor-compur) connection if from the 50s or after. See http://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/Flash_History.html

[Peter De Smidt]

It seems like the Speedotron Black 2400 (http://www.adorama.com/SZ11254.html) line series packs are a kind of battery pack? If you're paying over $200 for it, why not use the Black Box (http://www.aljacobs.com/my_products/the_black_box_story.html)?

No, it's not a battery pack. It's a pack that need to be plugged into a 120 volt outlet, either the wall or a generator. You can connect 4 flash heads to it.

[jan labij]

You really need strobes? I use photoflood bulbs, white for pan, blue for ortho. Gives room for plenty of experimentation on lighting effects, ratios etc.

[Ben Syverson]

You really need strobes? I use photoflood bulbs, white for pan, blue for ortho. Gives room for plenty of experimentation on lighting effects, ratios etc.
It all depends what you're looking to do... If you're shooting 8x10 because you can use crazy old lenses and experiment, then photofloods are a good bet. If you're shooting 8x10 because you want insane sharpness and clarity, then obviously it has to be strobes.

[Neal Chaves]

You might consider flash bulbs. I bought a large quantity inexpensively that was being cleared out of a photo store. A Press 25 flash bulb will provide the same exposure as 1200 WS of electronic flash. Use must use 1/30 or slower, but you can meter the bulb with a flash meter that has an internal trigger like Calcu-Flash II. I have quite a few of the large No. 2 and 2Bs which have a standard household base and can be triggered with 115VAC. Good luck finding a Graflex bulb flash unit, most went to make Star Wars light sabers for Treckies long ago.

[rfesk]

Since you are familiar with them, just buy more 283's and sync them together. They are cheap used. Learning from those results you can try other options including bounce etc.

Also, T-max 400 pushed to asa 800 will reduce the amount of light needed.

[Two23]

I'll weigh in here. Really, none of us can make any meaningful suggestions. The WHOLE THING about photography is to match the gear to the application. The OP has given us zero info about what he's shooting. I'll add some thoughts. I'm new here, but I'm now in my fourth year of using extensive portable lighting systems. I shoot outdoors and mostly light up railroad trains, and sometimes very small subjects such as canyons and the giant sequoia trees in Mariposa Grove, Yosemite. :) I have six White Lightning X3200 monolights (8,000+ watt seconds) plus a battery pack for each. I also have x8 Nikon SB-28 flash as my small & fast lighting system.

I've mostly shot my Nikon D300 with these lighting systems. With the big lights I can reach exposure of ISO 400 & f8. With the small lights I can reach ISO 800 & f4. If there is snow covering the ground it will effectively double the power of the lights. (I usually shoot in winter for this reason.) One thing I've noticed is that large format seems to take a TON of light. As much as I have, I barely have enough to light up 300 feet of train (i.e. four locomotives.) LF lenses aren't as fast, and I don't know how the OP feels about pushing film to ISO 800. Or the distance he's shooting from (I usually set my big strobes from 30 to 100 yards from my subjects.) Light falls off very quickly, as we all know.

If the OP is just shooting very tiny subjects such as coins, stamps, flowers, then maybe a few Nikon SB-28 flash (i.e. 4AA battery powered flash) would provide enough power for wide apertures. If you start stopping down tighter than f8, I personally doubt the little flash are going to cut it though. I would look for used White Lightning X3200 and battery packs (Vagabond 1) if you need portability. The thing about monolights is that not only do you have the power, but you also have a lot more flexibility in usable light modifiers. The modifiers are the key to the overall look, I think. All photography is about understanding and using light superbly, but with flash that's even more critical.

I use radio triggers, CyberSyncs, of course since my flash can be set up to 600 ft. from my camera. Radio triggers do indeed fire from the PC post of Copal shutters--I have done this. I assume they would fire from any shutter with PC post. However, there is a caveat. Modern strobes uses "X" sync--electronic flash. Many older lenses are synced for "M", which are flash bulbs. The "M" sync seems to sync a few milliseconds earlier to give the bulbs time to hit peak glow. The flash duration is so fast on strobes that it might actually peak and dissipate before the shutter fully opens! There is a third sync setting that's for larger bulbs, but I'm not familiar with it. If you aren't setting the flash very far away (OP didn't say,) you could get away with just using sync cords. I don't like them because they come loose in the wind, and are a trip hazard. Don't know if any of that applies to what the OP is doing though. Bottom line is that I suggest a couple of monolights for most people. They have the needed power for general subjects, and the flexibility of light modifiers.


Kent in SD

Gud Blessi Is'land!