Loading film backs in hot&humid?

[jvuokko]

Hi,

I'm going to japan for the summer and it will be hot and humid there.

In my last trip, I used only quickloads to avoid handling of the film sheets in the changing back.
I have really bad experiences of changing bag in hot (and humid) environment, on the one trip to japan, I used changing bag and regular 4x5 film backs. The result was pile of negatives with all kind of marks from my sweaty fingers and sweat that has drop to the film..


But now as the QL is not quite available, I must use again regular film backs - unless I go with MF gear.

Any tips how could I make the changing of the films easier? Should I use gloves for preventing sweat falling to the films?
I do not have access to any room that can be darken, so the changing back / tent is only option. And ofcourse, the dark room would also be really hot with same problems..


Thanks,
Jukka

[rguinter]

...Any tips how could I make the changing of the films easier? Should I use gloves for preventing sweat falling to the films?
I do not have access to any room that can be darken, so the changing back / tent is only option. And ofcourse, the dark room would also be really hot with same problems...Jukka

I had the same problem for years. I sweat terribly and it was always a problem loading/unloading film holders in the summer.

Once I switched to a film-changing tent my problem subsided considerably. I still sweat profusely but the task of loading/unloading in a changing tent is so much faster and easier. I can place the holders and film box inside the tent ahead of time, close it up, and then do what's necessary to cool off/dry off before actually putting my hands in there to do the job. I also keep the number of holders I'm working with small at any one time (i.e., 2 or 3) to keep the task short. Takes me less than a minute per holder to load/unload. Works for me. Best of luck. Bob G.

[Ben Syverson]

Load the film in your air conditioned hotel?

[jvuokko]

Load the film in your air conditioned hotel?

I don't live in hotel. The purpose of trip is not exactly photography (althought I have good opportunies to photograph) and I'll live at my relatives aparthment - not much air conditioning.

[Bill_1856]

Unfortunately, I think the only realistic answer is to use Latex gloves. They can be quite fragile, so take several pairs.

[Ben Syverson]

Ah, I see. I would load two film holders at a time, taking a 10 minute break in-between. That way you don't overheat!

[tgtaylor]

If you have access to electricity and a refrigerator, then place a bowl of ice in front of an electric fan that is blowing on you and, voila, you have air conditioning.

I usually load my holders sitting on the floor in the living room with my back against the sofa. The coffee table with the Harrison changing tent set-up on top is the perfect height for that task. I can also watch TV or listen to the stereo while loading/unloading holders.:)

[lenser]

I would think that the white cotton lab gloves that are made for film handling would be far superior to latex. The latex would be a barrier, but would make one's hands much hotter and build up the sweating cycle on arms which could then drip sweat onto the holders and film. The cotton would breath and allow for dryer and cooler hands.

The Harrison tents are the best I've used and give you lots of space to spread out holders and film boxes while working which keeps contact to a minimum. Also helpful for keeping sweat drops away since you can push the film and holders away from just being under your hands.

Since your head is the main heat radiator of the body, stay in the shade for changing and face any possible breezes to stay cooler; and if indoors, have a fan on your head/face which will rapidly cool the entire body and help to reduce sweating everywhere including your hands.

As to humidity, if your film has been frozen or refrigerated, be sure to allow considerable time for the package to come to ambient temperature before unsealing the zip lock you have had it sealed in. Otherwise....instant condensation and if the foil wrapper has been previously opened, an almost certain chance of moisture damage to the film.

[rguinter]

Unfortunately, I think the only realistic answer is to use Latex gloves. They can be quite fragile, so take several pairs.

I agree with lenser. Use of latex gloves is probably not such a good idea. For me anyway as a health and safety specialist I use (nitrile) rubber gloves all the time for handling samples and hazardous materials. We don't use latex at our site due to the possibility of someone developing latex allergy.

But with the gloves on I sweat more and faster. I think fumbling with them inside a changing tent would actually make things worse. Personally I need the sensitivity of feel with bare fingers on the film edges and holders to make the job go quickly. Takes just a few seconds for me to open a film holder and slide a film sheet in. But if I couldn't feel the edges of things adequately I'm sure it would slow me down significantly. Bob G.

[tgtaylor]

For me, gloves would definitely slow things down and probably make it impossible to load. I need the sensitivity of bare skin to feel the beginning of the two slots on either side of the holder. Once located, I carefully slide the sheet into those groves and then, with one hand holding the felt closure flat against the bottom of the tent, slowly and carefully push the sheet in with the index finger of the other hand keeping the sheet flat so that it doesn't jump out of the groves.

A fingernail is really handy when unloading. All my holders are Toyo (I never used any other brand) and those holders really hold the film in flat and tight. Sheets do not slide out and I find it necessary to use a finger nail, or if I recently cut mine, then torque the edge of the sheet up and away from the holder to get a grip on it to remove it.

[rguinter]

For me, gloves would definitely slow things down and probably make it impossible to load. I need the sensitivity of bare skin to feel the beginning of the two slots on either side of the holder. Once located, I carefully slide the sheet into those groves and then, with one hand holding the felt closure flat against the bottom of the tent, slowly and carefully push the sheet in with the index finger of the other hand keeping the sheet flat so that it doesn't jump out of the groves.

A fingernail is really handy when unloading...

I never asked anyone nor was I taught by anyone when I first started loading film holders. But "ditto" for me. My technique is exactly the same as tgtaylor describes above. Down to a science now and takes maybe 15-20 seconds total for a loaded sheet. Flip the holder and another 15-20 for the other side. I remember in the beginning practicing a bit with junk film and then simply went to it. Even my sweaty hands tend to stay dry for that amount of time. BG

[rguinter]

P.S. If you need to dry your hands before putting them into the arm holes use a clean towel rather than tissues. Too much loose cellulose fiber on tissues or paper towels. BG

[Ed Richards]

Wear a long sleeve cotton shirt when working in the bag, it will help catch sweat. I do not have any trouble loading with cotton gloves on, but they are a problem unloading. You could get thicker cotton gloves and cut the fingertips off - that would only leave a small amount of skin uncovered to sweat. You could also get a lintless towel and keep it in the bag to wipe your hands between holders.

But unless you need movements, MF has to be easier when you do not control your own space.

[Donald Miller]

I have found that using a plastic garbage bag inside the changing bag drastically cuts down on the amount of foreign contamination of the film. I vote for cotton gloves too.

[Ari]

Jukka,
You might also consider using Grafmatic backs; that way you'll need to load/unload less frequently.

[tgtaylor]

Yeah, but with the tent you can go into the dining area after you have taken your shower, sit at a table with a view to the outside area, order supper, coffee, beer, etc, set up the tent on top of the table and load/unload right there with the juke box playing and the staff loving it! You'll be the coolest guy there!

Try it at a Flying J, Loves,... you'll love it - you'll never go back in the shower again!

[patrickjames]

Nitrile gloves it is for me. Thanks for the tip.

[Sevo]

Arms will sweat regardless of what kind of gloves you use, because they are inside the bag. If any, using a breathable cotton (like those sold by Roger Luo) rather than coated nylon bag might help a bit. As far as gloves go, use any surgical gloves that come in a bare, unpowdered (and otherwise untreated) version. Nitrile and vinyl are the most easily obtainable recommendable types. Avoid real latex, as that inevitably must be smothered in some release agent or it will turn into a solid clump - even "unpowdered'" latex are still greased with silicone oil, which leaves fingerprints that attract dust and may cause irregular development.

Sevo

[rguinter]

Well, I never liked the tent thing. I always went to a truck stop, pay my $2-5 for shower facilities (no windows in them, private, lock). I load my film, then take a shower...At a truck stop pick up their booklet listing all truck stops throughout North America, which shows all amenities available at each location. You soon realize you have thousands of temporary darkrooms all across the country, and rarely far from you.

But he was asking about Japan?

[tgtaylor]

McDonalds. They're air conditioned and, yep, they are in Japan too!

[rguinter]

I think Van Campers advice is pretty sound. I'm headed to Quebec city for a business trip in a couple of weeks. Debating what photo equipment to take. But I'm thinking roll film only for this trip (again). Saves a whole lot of headaches and most of my best shots have been with 612 and 617 anyway. And one can let the rolls go through the security x-ray scanners a couple of times with little worry. I ask for hand inspection but put the film through the scanner without an argument if they resist. Just don't put it in a plastic tub with something that will catch the operators attention for a long high-energy look. Cheers. Bob G.

[al olson]

McDonalds is good idea (not sure all of them have locks on door), but lot of coffee shops and gas stations have bathrooms with door locks. Just don't spend an hour in there.

...

I think that Mr. Taylor was implying the use of a tent in the dining area of McDonalds as he was suggesting in post #17. :)

[ethics_gradient]

McDonalds. They're air conditioned and, yep, they are in Japan too!

You could also try a love hotel. Air conditioned, sanitary (as far as I could tell), and quite private. They've even got an hourly rate ;-)

[tgtaylor]

The problem with bathrooms is that they are usually not light tight with the door closed and something placed against the bottom jam. For example, to light proof my bathroom I find it necessary to tape black contractors trash bags along the door edges to catch that little sliver of light that manages to bounce in.

You could certainly use them while on the road to develop your negatives in day light tanks though, and you wouldn't even have to lock the door. Load your 4x5's using the tent in the dining room and with developer, fix, and loaded tank in hand, process the negatives in the bathroom using tap water for the stop and wash. Late at night about an hour or so before closing is usually best as the bathroom traffic is minimal at that time.

Another alternative is to simply ask around. If the community is small, everyone usually knows everyone else and there's bound to be an amateur photographer there who may have a home darkroom. The local coffee shop ("The Chatter Box") is a good place to hook-up with people.

[J D Clark]

I prefer to load holders in the "open" when possible, only using the dark bag when absolutely necessary.

For instance, I found that the bathroom in the older rooms at Stovepipe Wells ("Roadrunner", "49ers") can be made completely dark: after sunset, no lights or TV on in the room, and towell along the floor.

Of course, I was confounded in a room in the Yosemite Lodge -- the bathroom had a skylight, with a street light right outside the window!

John Clark
www.johndclark.com

[cyrus]

Load at night, when it can be cooler.

[jvuokko]

Thanks for helping.

The loading of one back or side of back at time, then taking 'cooling break' could work. As loading during night time.

Also night could help getting closet dark enough for loading films quickly.

The small problem is that old japanese style is to have separate bathroom and closet and on many cases, they have kind of matte window between, so light that comes to bathroom comes also to closet.

[tgtaylor]

A little bit of light is really not a big deal. I work with my back to the door, and it would take minutes before any fogging would occur. Considering you load in under 30 secs, I never found it a problem. A little bit of fogging Ansel often did intentionally to gain more shadow detail (so you might like it). However, I do carry in my shower bag my film, holders, few garbage bags, and black electric tape if a door is warped along an edge and leaks more light then normal. For the floor the towels you are given at truck stops do the trick (I got my own) along the floor. If your concerned, try gas stations where the bathroom entrance is not inside the store, and load at night. I've always stuck to truck stops because no one is rushing me.....I got an hour if I need or more to load my film, take a shower, etc. You could process your film in there and no one would care (and its cheap). With a public bathroom, you probably got about 10-15 mins before someone gets mad and starts pounding on your door.

A little light doesn't cause any problems as long as the rays are not falling on your film. A rental darkroom I used several years ago a little light was usually leaking in but I could get closer to the wall with the film so it wouldn't pose a problem.

Even in my bathroom which I can completely light proof - not a stray ray to be spied - I swear that I can still see my hands a little. They're red so if it's not my imagination then I apparently can see the infrared radiation they're emitting.

I'll stick with the Harrison tent on a table in the dining room. Much easier for me that way. Self-processing your B&W film while on road trips is the way to travel though. You can easily keep a separate cooler in the trunk with the chemistry and get ice for free from McDonalds, Carl’s, etc to keep things cool. I usually keep a wide mouth Nagalene bottle filled with ice inside a Playmate cooler to keep the temperature reasonable. When you're ready to process, just stop at a rest area, park - anywhere where there’s running water. Once developed, you can hang the sheets/rolls out to dry on a tree limb or something in the shade using a inexpensive wardrobe that you can but new for about $5.

Color would be a little more complicated in that you would need to pack along a Jobo. But if you have the space, even color would be a simple thing. All you need is a flat space for the Jobo and an electrical outlet (or a transformer to run it off your car battery). Most highway rest stops and park restrooms have everything you need.

[Arne Croell]

Well, since you're going to be in Japan, you likely can still get Quickload there! Japan Exposures lists Fuji 160NC, 160NS, Astia, Velvia 50, Velvia 100, and Acros in Quickload on their web site: http://www.japanexposures.com/shop/index.php?cPath=25. You might want to e-mail Dirk at JE about actual availability beforehand.

[jvuokko]

Sounds good - So I'll take couple - say five - ordinary film backs (in case that I don't have QL's and I can preload couple of them with IR film or something) and my quick load back with me.

[Andrew O'Neill]

The Harrison tents are the best I've used and give you lots of space to spread out holders and film boxes while working which keeps contact to a minimum. Also helpful for keeping sweat drops away since you can push the film and holders away from just being under your hands.

Jvuokko, changing film in a film changing tent in humid conditions is hellish. It will only work if you are in an air conditioned room, and chances are your relatives' place will be. I lived for many years on Kyushu (southern Fukuoka prefecture), and summers are brutally humid. If you don't have a film changing tent, hopefully your relatives' toilet room can be made light tight... if not, you can do all your film loading/unloading at night.

[archer]

If time isn't a factor, unload film with gloves on. When all of the holders are unloaded and the exposed film is safely in the box, remove the box from the bag/tent. Take all the holders out and clean them and in each film slot insert a sheet of separation paper about half way and close the holder flap and insert the dark slide, bending the paper into the bottom dark slide slot. After all the holders are thus prepared then back into the changing bag/tent and with gloves on slide the dark slide halfway out and load the holder by sliding the film under the paper, which will automatically force the film into the film slots/guides. Remove paper and slide the dark slide home...done! and no sweaty fingerprints or misloaded holders.
Denise Libby
P.S. It should've been stated at the beginning of my post that I always carry a couple dozen seperation papers with me for lots of uses and this technique I developed years ago when I shot weddings in 4X5, in Sacramento, in the summer. We're talking HOT and unless you like to do a lot of retouching, gloves are essential.

[ljsegil]

Badger Graphic still has Fuji 160C and S Quickloads in stock, well priced.
Larry

[Rayt]

Yes Fuji Quickloads are readily available in Japan including Acros. I am going there to stock up next week in fact.

[Stephen Willard]

Nitrile gloves it is for me. Thanks for the tip.

I use Nitrile gloves, and I love them. They fit tight, have breathable cloth on the upper side, and grip like crazy. I do cut the very tip of both forefingers and thumbs off to give me limited skin contact for more sensitive feel of areas where needed.

[rguinter]

I think Van Campers advice is pretty sound. I'm headed to Quebec city for a business trip in a couple of weeks. Debating what photo equipment to take. But I'm thinking roll film only for this trip (again). Saves a whole lot of headaches and most of my best shots have been with 612 and 617 anyway. And one can let the rolls go through the security x-ray scanners a couple of times with little worry. I ask for hand inspection but put the film through the scanner without an argument if they resist. Just don't put it in a plastic tub with something that will catch the operators attention for a long high-energy look. Cheers. Bob G.

Just back from my trip to Quebec City. I wound up taking a mix of 4x5 and 120 roll-film equipment. For the 4x5 sheet film I was able to change film on an ironing board set up in the hotel bathroom at night. The only light I had to deal with was phosphorescence of the plastic cover over the fluorescent bulb... and the LED in the wall switch. I covered the LED with black tape and simply stopped using the fluorescent light an hour or so before changing film.

For changing film in my Sinar backs I simply did it outdoors carefully in the shade.

No problems noted. Cheers. Bob G.