Trying to decide: Linhof Technikardan, Cambo Ultima or Sinar P

[Just Learning]

Ok so I'm moving onto large format for the first time. I've been doing architectural and landscape photography for a while on the Canon 5D Mark II + a Hassleblad 503CX. I'm trying to decide between a Linhof Technikardan, Cambo Ultima or Sinar P.

There are a number of issues to consider.
1. For the next year at least, I'll be shooting only film. I actually prefer to shoot film but if I can make a business out of this I'll need to move onto large format digital fairly soon I imagine. It would be great to invest in a kit that I can shoot film and use a digital back on.
2. Whilst I tend to drive to architectural locations, weight is an issue for my landscape work as I often have to walk with kit and I work alone (I'm a fairly small girl so really heavy kit is a pain.)
3. As this is my first foray into large format, I'd like to spoil myself by getting kit that's easy to use.

I'd really appreciate any advice. I'm based in the UK and any advice on good secondhand suppliers would be appreciated as well.

Thanks

[Bob McCarthy]

All of these cameras are capable of bringing home the shot.

I've owned 2 of the 3 cameras you mention, the P is a great camera, but conveniently portable, not so much so. It can be done, but requires some effort.

The technikardan folds up to the size of a book (hard back of course) and can be carried in a backpack easily.

I know nothing about the specific Cambo you mention.
bob

[Capocheny]

Hi JL,

Can't speak to the Cambo Ultima but I can speak to the Sinar... it's a heavy, heavy camera especially if you're looking to pack a few lenses, wide-angle bellows, holders, meters, etc.

[The weight adds up in a hurry regardless...]

The Technikardan is a great camera and would work well for your purposes. I used one for awhile years ago and quite liked it. Some people say it's a bit trickier to set up but I didn't think so.

One other camera you may want to look at is the Arca Swiss F-Line... very portable and it's a joy to use.

Just my 2 cents worth! :)

Cheers

[Just Learning]

Thanks for the advice, very helpful. It seems like the Sinar P and the Cambo Ultima are going to be too heavy.

One more question...
Is it possible to shoot 4x5 film and fit a digital back to the Arca Swiss F-line? It would be so helpful to just invest in a one size fits all solution.

I think I'm right in assuming that you can't fit a digital back to the Linhof Technikardan?

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks for the advice, very helpful. It seems like the Sinar P and the Cambo Ultima are going to be too heavy.

One more question...
Is it possible to shoot 4x5 film and fit a digital back to the Arca Swiss F-line? It would be so helpful to just invest in a one size fits all solution.

I think I'm right in assuming that you can't fit a digital back to the Linhof Technikardan?

Then you assumed wrong! The Linhof DigiAdapter puts a Hasselblad H digital back on any Linhof 45, including the TK and TKS models. They also make one for their 23 cameras as well.

[Bruce M. Herman]

I've used only one 4x5 camera, the TK45, and I've used it since 1991. I'm quite happy with it, but there are a couple of things worth knowing.

At least on my camera, the bed movements can be stiff during cold weather. That hasn't stopped me from working in temperatures to -20F, but is just something to keep in mind if you're working outside and trying to move quickly.

You'll definitely want the bad bellows for lenses 90 mm and wider.

I would purchase a quick release attachment for your tripod head and a corresponding plate for the camera. I use a 3/8" thread screw to attach the plate to the camera (note that I have an older TK45, not the TK45S, so I don't know if this is possible with it). Threading the tripod head directly to the camera each time that you use it is awkward and takes too much time.

Best wishes for moving forward with LF.

[big_ben_blue]

my 2 cents worth ... I've worked for years with the Sinar P system and had a chance to toy around with a Cambo Ultima briefly.
The Sinar P(2) is NOT the way to go if mobility is asked for. It's a wonderful camera, insanely precise; but that precision comes with a price - weight (and a lot of it). Back during my college years (oh the memories, can't believe it's already ten years ago), we used the scaled down Sinar F2 cameras for most of our assignments. While lighter and more portable then the P, it still wasn't much of a joy to "schlepp" them around in the field, especially if one adds all the peripherals into the mix (lenses, holders, tripod, hard case ...).
The Ultima would have been my dream camera ... for studio work. I allmost bought one when they first came out after having played with one at a presentation (but went for a full Hassy kit instead). IMHO it surpasses the Sinar P(2). However, it's just as heavy as the Sinar and best suited for the studio.
I am not familiar with the Linhof TK though; my two Linhofs are a Bi and a GTL (both are studio monsters).

[Capocheny]

Hi JL,

Can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to mount a digital back onto the F-Line Metric...

I only shoot film so I'm not able to speak to which digital backs are compatible.

However, contact Rod at Photomark and he'll be able to give you all the information you'll ever want/need in regards to Arca Swiss cameras.

Here's his website:

http://www.photomark.com/large_format.html

Good luck on the decision.

Cheers

[Nathan Potter]

I've used the Sinar P in an industrial setting along with a TK 45. Have used the TK 45 out in the field exclusively for about 10 yrs. The TK is clearly twice the weight (7 lbs. or so) than an ultra light wood field camera but rock solid and precise in use. The Sinar P is just a bit too heavy and awkward to use in the field for me.

The TK takes a bit of getting used to in the folding and unfolding operation. Also when folded the edge of the bellows are exposed in your camera bag, can be easily abraided, and are pricey to replace ($600.00). But the TK would still be my pick for precision and stability and modest weight. My one workhorse TK 45 has been dragged around in my 4 runner and on my back for more than 200,000 miles over 10 years and still functions perfectly. On my third bellows.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Bob Salomon]

I've used the Sinar P in an industrial setting along with a TK 45. Have used the TK 45 out in the field exclusively for about 10 yrs. The TK is clearly twice the weight (7 lbs. or so) than an ultra light wood field camera but rock solid and precise in use. The Sinar P is just a bit too heavy and awkward to use in the field for me.

The TK takes a bit of getting used to in the folding and unfolding operation. Also when folded the edge of the bellows are exposed in your camera bag, can be easily abraided, and are pricey to replace ($600.00). But the TK would still be my pick for precision and stability and modest weight. My one workhorse TK 45 has been dragged around in my 4 runner and on my back for more than 200,000 miles over 10 years and still functions perfectly. On my third bellows.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.
Just put the TK in a large Novoflex Wrap and the bellows will be fully protected. Novoflex wraps are stretchable neoprene hook and loop material that also adds a slight padding for added protection.

BTW, Domke's largest wrap was originally made for us and was sold as Linhof Camera Wrap specifically to protect the TK when folded at the request of Lou at Ken Hansen when the original camera was introduced and Domke was an independent company.

[Just Learning]

Thanks to everyone for all your advice.

Why don't more people tend to use the Linhof Technikardan as a digital system? Are the geared movements delicate enough?

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks to everyone for all your advice.

Why don't more people tend to use the Linhof Technikardan as a digital system? Are the geared movements delicate enough?

Digital view cameras like the M679cs system and the Techno have much more precise movements then any film based view camera.

Yes most people today use film based view cameras to use a digital back on and film based lenses since they already own them. But to get the most out of a digital back a digital based camera and lenses are by far the best bet.

The only geared movement on a TK is the focusing. On a digital view camera every movement is geared.

[Frank Petronio]

Modern one shot digital backs on film view cameras are an impractical fallacy. Yes you can use them but not very well.... the sensor is much smaller than film so you're working with shorter lenses and you need to make finer adjustments - even the geared cameras like the Sinar P and Cambo Ultima are on the coarse side for this, which is why Bob S. suggests something made for digital, like the Linhof M679.

If you follow modern professional architectural photographers, most use DSLRs. On the higher end many use dedicated wide angle digital cameras alongside SLR bodies (like a Hasselblad H3). The advantage of the dedicated wide angle digital cameras is that they are precise and robust, everything remains parallel even when you shift or rise/fall. Tilts aren't used that often anyway, and Photoshop can always distort things back to plumb.

The geared monorail type cameras are more useful for studio work. Some people use them in the field, carefully. But many people find that large format film works better in the field because you can be less precise, it's often lighter and less expensive, etc. and it is just more practical.

The three cameras you mentioned are very different, the Technikardan is a field camera that can do studio work. The Sinar P and Ultima are studio cameras. The Arcas are very versatile but expensive. You may do better to study this forum's advice threads and get something basic and simple to learn with, then you'll have a better idea which direction to go. Many large format photographers try several kinds of cameras for a period and settle on their favorites - you can freely buy and sell and still break even so there is little penalty to learning this way.

[Bob Salomon]

"Tilts aren't used that often anyway, and Photoshop can always distort things back to plumb."

And lose resolution and size in the process! In camera correctons give the best results!

[rdenney]

Just a restatement of the bleeding obvious:

The tilt required to achieve any given effect is roughly proportional to the format, assuming lenses of focal lengths that provide the equivalent field of view. (It's not linear at large tilt angles such as those used for product photography in the studio but it is linear at the more usual small angles used in architecture work.) So, a sensor of half the dimension of 4x5 using a lens of half the focal length will require half the tilt. That means any given change in tilt has twice the effect. That's why precision gear-driven movements are so nice with smaller formats.

Rick "in addition to being instantly repeatable, etc." Denney

[Eric Brody]

Try a Technikardan (spend a few moments :) trying to learn how to fold it...), and try an Arca. I'll be surprised if you get the Technikardan unless it's significantly cheaper. Linhof makes a fine camera, but the Arca is considerably more flexible, interchangeable standards, bellows, rails. The Sinar is a beautiful instrument, if you don't have to carry it anywhere, or have a sherpa. I know nothing of the Cambo. I'm certain all three are decent cameras, they just hold the film (digital back) and lens.

Good luck.

Eric

[Dan Dozer]

For what it's worth, I always take the bellows off my Technikardan when it's not being used. While it isn't all that difficult to get used to how to unfold the camera with the bellows on, the edges are exposed when the camera is folded up, and I'm not interested in buying a replacement bellows any time soon. It takes less than a minute to set up the camera, and the bellows is real easy to put on after the camera is unfolded.

All that being said, I really enjoy the camera and have never second guessed my decision to buy one.

[Bob Salomon]

Try a Technikardan (spend a few moments :) trying to learn how to fold it...), and try an Arca. I'll be surprised if you get the Technikardan unless it's significantly cheaper. Linhof makes a fine camera, but the Arca is considerably more flexible, interchangeable standards, bellows, rails. The Sinar is a beautiful instrument, if you don't have to carry it anywhere, or have a sherpa. I know nothing of the Cambo. I'm certain all three are decent cameras, they just hold the film (digital back) and lens.

Good luck.

Eric
It doesn't take a few minutes to learn how to open or close a TK. It takes a few seconds and, if you read the simple instructions supplied with the camera, it is a piece of cake.

To fold the camera, compress the rails, if extended, put all movements on 0, lock all red levers, unlock all green levers, rotate the focus knob counterclockwise (opposite the direction of the arrow on the focusing knob. The arrow indicates the direction to turn it when opening the camera).

If you have the S version slightly twist turn the swing movements with your thumbs to start the fold and unfold.

On the focusing rail there is an icon of the folded camera that indicates where the camera ends up on the rail when folded.

Total open/close/open time is under 30 seconds once you have done it a couple of times.

As to the bellows, just put the camera into a Large Novoflex Wrap. It will be as well protected as any other camera that way.

[Frank Petronio]

The Technikardan is under-rated and the Arcas are over-rated, they are all great cameras but sometimes little cliques develop amongst photographers, you know, like Junior High School girls....

[arca andy]

Hey I use an Arca for Architectural work...its great, but I would rather have a Linhof Technika (not Techikarden). I could then carry my LF around in a back pack, useful for landscapes etc. I currently have a 4 wheeled gardeners trolly that I load up with the Arca, lights, tripod etc And trundel that around various building projects here in UK... Hoping that the builders have put in a lift (elevator)
Have you tried Robert White for Arca, they have a whole load of other LF manufactures too. I know this might be heresy on this site, but have you tried a TS lens on your Canon...it might be all you need. You can hire them, before you buy them, from the evil empire that is Calumet (only joking).
Have fun Andy

[Bob Salomon]

Try a Technikardan (spend a few moments :) trying to learn how to fold it...), and try an Arca. I'll be surprised if you get the Technikardan unless it's significantly cheaper. Linhof makes a fine camera, but the Arca is considerably more flexible, interchangeable standards, bellows, rails. The Sinar is a beautiful instrument, if you don't have to carry it anywhere, or have a sherpa. I know nothing of the Cambo. I'm certain all three are decent cameras, they just hold the film (digital back) and lens.

Good luck.

Eric

As a 45 camera the Arca is no more versatile then a TK. The TK also has a W/A bellows and has a collapsible rail system that handles lenses from 65mm to 400mm without a recessed board and from 35mm to 58mm on recessed boards.

The TK can take backs for film and digital and accepts roll film formats down to 35mm and sheet film down to 6x9cm. The only thing it can't do is use film formats larger then 4x5".

[Brian Ellis]

Thanks to everyone for all your advice.

Why don't more people tend to use the Linhof Technikardan as a digital system? Are the geared movements delicate enough?

I have no idea why more people don't use the TK as a digital system but it isn't because the geared movements are too delicate. There are no geared movements on a TK.

[Bob McCarthy]

.......... The Sinar is a beautiful instrument, if you don't have to carry it anywhere, or have a sherpa. ..........Good luck.

Eric


This is overplayed a bunch. The challenge with the sinar is not weight (though it's not lightweight) but bulk. With the major movement mechanisms being below the monorail, it becomes less convenient to move around, compared to a folding camera . However its the assymetric tilt, swing and precision that makes it so damn nice to use. I use a P 8x10 and I get it places that get the shot. Transport is the car trunk, a roller cart, some of it is a little extra walking. I lift very little weight, so I don't see the issue as all that challenging. If I backpacked 20 miles in rugged backconntry, I'd be using a Deardorff or equivalent.

bob