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View Full Version : Is Nikon 65/f4 usable without a centre filter?



Bogdan_B
16-May-2010, 12:33
I am considering adding a 58-65mm to my lens range. On the top of the list is the Nikon 65/f4 followed by the Schneider 58XL. I know the Schneider needs a center filter but I'm not sure about the Nikon. I primarily shoot Velvia 50, so a digital center filter is not an option. I would also appreciate to hear if anyone had previous experience with both the Nikon and Schneider.

eric black
16-May-2010, 15:14
I have always liked the results with this lens without the CF- The falloff is not very noticable to my eye and my results (nature landscape work) have never shown a benefit from the CF (even when Ive used it with an additional shot just to be sure)

Lachlan 717
16-May-2010, 15:33
I have always liked the results with this lens without the CF- The falloff is not very noticable to my eye and my results (nature landscape work) have never shown a benefit from the CF (even when Ive used it with an additional shot just to be sure)

Are you shooting Velvia like the OP?

lenser
16-May-2010, 15:57
The purpose of the center filter is to balance the exposure across the film due to the normal slight exposure falloff toward the edges that these lenses produce. As such, the filter is only necessary if you don't like the look that the lens naturally produces. I agree with Eric. I use my 58mmXL for both architecture and landscape and really enjoy the look as is.

eric black
16-May-2010, 16:38
Are you shooting Velvia like the OP?

yep- and some provia as well- I dont use much more for movements with this lens than back tilt though

Walter Calahan
16-May-2010, 19:05
All depends on your style. Eric, if you want to stop by and test a Nikon 65 mm I own one. But you'll have to go by the Dublin Coffee Roaster in New Market and get me a pound of the house blend as a test payment. Ha ha ha ha ha

Seriously, we only live a few miles apart and I have the lens.

anchored
16-May-2010, 20:45
Shooting Velvia 50... yes, you'll most likely want to use a center filter, unless you like the vignette look on all your images (which indeed you may). I'm not sure about the gradiant on the center filter for the 65mm lens, but the one for the 75mm Grandagon-N is 2-1/2 stops... which is more than "slight" and will be highly noticable with Velvia 50.

Shooting B&W film you might be able to get by without a CF, but for color transparencies you'll very likely find that filter to be necessary (unless you do want heavy vignetting on all images). I personally always use a center filter when shooting color transparencies on all subjects when using Velvia or Provia films as I prefer to control vignette effects on images and not be stuck with them on all images.

Bogdan_B
17-May-2010, 08:53
Thanks for your comments guys, very helpfull. Because of a center filter for the Nikon would be quite hard to find, it looks like the Schneider is the logic option for my shooting conditions.
Once again, thanks all.

Clive Gray
17-May-2010, 13:27
I don't have the 58XL but have used the Nikon lens quite a bit for Landscapes with Velvia 100 I do find a centre filter necessary.


Nikon never made centre filters for there lenses but I find the Schneider 3A one works well and some Hoya 67mm ones I have.

You basically just need to try something with a suitable 67mm thread.

Ed Richards
17-May-2010, 19:26
If are you printing digitally, it is simple to correct the falloff from a 65mm. (The 47mm is a little harder because it can fall off enough to drop below the shadow threshold if you are not careful or if there is a lot of contrast.)

Bogdan_B
18-May-2010, 08:08
I'm printing digitally, but like to have my slides 100% so a digital centre filter is not an viable option for me.
If i could find a center filter i would love to get the Nikon because it sgould be a bit brighter than the Schneider and its a bit cheaper.

Jim Bradley
18-May-2010, 09:28
I'm a rookie here so take this a large grain of salt.
Assumption: The fall off is a function of the physics of the lens design and not unique to a specifc manufacturer. This means you can mix lens and CF as long as the threads match and the CF is designed for focal length and F stop of the lens.
Based on that assumption I use a Rodenstock CF on my Schneider 75 mm SA. Seems to work fine. Still expensive though.

JGB

anchored
18-May-2010, 09:36
A good accessory to make an attempt to find used. New Schneider or Rodenstock center filters cost $500 or more... I believe Heliopan makes one that will cost same price range or more. Used ones are frequently seen for far less (usually sold for around $200-ish)... there's several currently listed for auction on eBay (2-Schneiders and a Rodenstock).

Another option would be a Marumi center filter that sells for less than $200 new... but I know nothing about the quality of that brand... personally would be hesitant to use one without knowing something about how well it performs.

Bob Salomon
18-May-2010, 13:49
A good accessory to make an attempt to find used. New Schneider or Rodenstock center filters cost $500 or more... I believe Heliopan makes one that will cost same price range or more. Used ones are frequently seen for far less (usually sold for around $200-ish)... there's several currently listed for auction on eBay (2-Schneiders and a Rodenstock).

Another option would be a Marumi center filter that sells for less than $200 new... but I know nothing about the quality of that brand... personally would be hesitant to use one without knowing something about how well it performs.

A wide angle center filter is wider in front then in back to eliminate mecahnical vignetting and so you can still add another filter. The Marumi is not a wide angle design and you may get mechanical vignetting and you can not stack filters.

Bogdan_B
18-May-2010, 14:17
... there's several currently listed for auction on eBay (2-Schneiders and a Rodenstock).
Funny enough the Rodenstock one is more expensive than a Nikon 65/f4


I'm a rookie here so take this a large grain of salt.
Assumption: The fall off is a function of the physics of the lens design and not unique to a specifc manufacturer. This means you can mix lens and CF as long as the threads match and the CF is designed for focal length and F stop of the lens.
Based on that assumption I use a Rodenstock CF on my Schneider 75 mm SA. Seems to work fine. Still expensive though.

JGB
I'm not sure about that, theoretically you might be right, technically you might be wrong. Although both the Schneider Super Angulon 65/f5.6 and the XL 58/f5.6 have the same 67mm filter attachment and same filter factor requirement, Schneider seems to recommend 2 different center filters, the III for the 65mm and the IIIb for the 58mm.


A wide angle center filter is wider in front then in back to eliminate mecahnical vignetting and so you can still add another filter. The Marumi is not a wide angle design and you may get mechanical vignetting and you can not stack filters.
It seems that both Schneider and Rodenstock agree on a 67-86mm size, the Marumi is only 82mm. I also don't know how neutral the Marumi is, we all know the issues with the Cokin P filters.

Clive Gray
21-May-2010, 07:08
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4044/4626183593_23c2a8bb69_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3325/4626785824_5c007c0eaf_b.jpg


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4048/4626173099_e098bfcf01_b.jpg


Ok probably not the best image for this and not very scientifically done .....but your starter for five

All are shot with the Nikon 65/F4 on Velvia 100 exposure was measured off the tree (it's sort of a mid grey tone ) using a Minolta Flash meter IV and a Sinar Booster 1 the one without a centre filter is 1/15 second F22.5 the ones with the Schnieder Centre Filter IIIa and the Hoya 67mm Centre filter are 1/8 second and F22 .. which is which....

Bob Salomon
21-May-2010, 07:40
Funny enough the Rodenstock one is more expensive than a Nikon 65/f4.

Currently Rodenstock makes two different 67mm center filters; one for the 35/45/55mm Apo Grandagons and one for the 75mm 4.5 and 90mm 6.8 Grandagons. The difference is the densities. The one for the Apo Grandagons has a factor of 2.5 while the other is 1.5. Also, Rodenstock did offer another density before it was discontinued for the far more neutral colored current ones above.

So there may be one listed on Ebay but you really want to know which one it is. Old or newer and Apo Grandagon or Grandagon version?

Darcy Cote
21-May-2010, 08:45
Oh don't leave us in suspense!


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4044/4626183593_23c2a8bb69_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3325/4626785824_5c007c0eaf_b.jpg


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4048/4626173099_e098bfcf01_b.jpg


Ok probably not the best image for this and not very scientifically done .....but your starter for five

All are shot with the Nikon 65/F4 on Velvia 100 exposure was measured off the tree (it's sort of a mid grey tone ) using a Minolta Flash meter IV and a Sinar Booster 1 the one without a centre filter is 1/15 second F22.5 the ones with the Schnieder Centre Filter IIIa and the Hoya 67mm Centre filter are 1/8 second and F22 .. which is which....

Bogdan_B
21-May-2010, 23:22
Currently Rodenstock makes two different 67mm center filters; one for the 35/45/55mm Apo Grandagons and one for the 75mm 4.5 and 90mm 6.8 Grandagons. The difference is the densities. The one for the Apo Grandagons has a factor of 2.5 while the other is 1.5. Also, Rodenstock did offer another density before it was discontinued for the far more neutral colored current ones above.

So there may be one listed on Ebay but you really want to know which one it is. Old or newer and Apo Grandagon or Grandagon version?
Problem solved....I managed to buy a Rodenstock 67/86mm 3x(1.5stops) from the classified section on this forum.