How often do Copal shutters require CLA?

[BennehBoy]

I have a Schneider 165/8 SA in Copal #3 that I had CLA'd early last year - the slower speeds we sticking a little and the 1/4 second was near instantaneous.

I shot a few sheets this morning and noticed that the same issue had re-occured. Is this typical, or is it most likely that the tech who did the work did some kind of 'jury rig'?

I'm in the UK so there's not a massive dust issue where this thing gets used.

Thanks,

Ben

[BrianShaw]

No, it is not typical.

[Frank Petronio]

A CLA should last a couple of decades, I think.

[Peter K]

It depends on the enviroment the shutter is used and stored. Not only dust but also humidity and temperature.

[Flea77]

Granted I am no expert on this but the ones I have lasted many many years with reasonable accuracy. I would say you have another issue.

Allan

[Daniel Stone]

Personally, I'd recommend sending the shutter(shutter only, keep the lens cells at home with you, she only needs the shutter) to Carol Flutot out here in Cali,

I just got my #4 compound done for my summer's travels, she's a great person to deal with, and her prices are very reasonable. She works on Copals(00-3) no problem, and she's very upfront with problems that she feels it might be. send her an email(link below)

she and I had a nice 30min conversation about sticky shutters(of any sort), and she said that it is generally caused by "over-lubrication". This is generally done by technicians who have no idea what they're doing, or by amateurs who "think they know" how to do it, and put the wrong type/or too much of lube in the right/wrong places, leading to dirt/dust/grime getting into the lens. This then mixes with the lubricant(which is generally somewhat sticky/med-high viscosity anyhow) and causes the shutter to not work correctly.

she said that depending on climate, it depends on how much lube should be applied.
also if you're in a colder environment, not all lubricants are appropriate for those conditions. There are special lubes for colder/damp vs. drier environments.

she also recommended running (at least 1x per month) each shutter speed on the shutter 10x for each speed. I do this while watching TV. Then store the lens when not in use on the T or B setting, because that causes the springs/mechanism linkage/gear train to become dis-engaged, lessening the chance of weak springs/gear-trains leading to slow/inaccurate shutter speeds.

here's a link to her services. she's quite fast, and if you're down for another $40-50 or so, she can "rush" it.

http://www.flutotscamerarepair.com/Services.htm

-Dan

[IanG]

Personally, I'd recommend sending the shutter(shutter only, keep the lens cells at home with you, she only needs the shutter) to Carol Flutot out here in Cali

-Dan


While I'm sure carol Flutot is excellent she's over subscribed because her name gets bandied about do much on the forums. There are many other equally competent repair shops.

The cost of sending a 165mm f8 SA from the UK -> US and back is far more than the cost of a good CLA in the UK. The front elements are not easy to remove on the earlier versions and its a very heavy large lens.

In addition a CLA can differ in the way its carried out, in the US many lenses are sold with the repairers tested shutter speeds which are often way outside the ISO tolerances (sometimes a stop), while in the UK a lens normally comes back within the tolerances, however the UK CLA is generally more expensive.

My 165mm SA was given a CLA by B on W in Bristol UK 3 years ago not long after I bought it as the slow speed were sticking and it's still running perfectly today, so are the other shutters they've done & all are accurate.

Ian

[dave_whatever]

I have a Schneider 165/8 SA in Copal #3 that I had CLA'd early last year - the slower speeds we sticking a little and the 1/4 second was near instantaneous.

I shot a few sheets this morning and noticed that the same issue had re-occured. Is this typical, or is it most likely that the tech who did the work did some kind of 'jury rig'?

I'm in the UK so there's not a massive dust issue where this thing gets used.

Thanks,

Ben

Where did you get the CLA done at? I had a shutter sticking in cold weather on the 1second setting which was CLAd under warranty by the vendor (serviced by Protech in Surrey). But it took them 2 attempts to get it working properly. So I would go back to whoever did your CLA and get them to do it again. I know a lot of camera service please give you a warranty on their work anyway, often for a year, so it's worth speaking to them. Certainly seems a more sensible suggestion than jumping to the conclusion that you should automatically ship your shutter half way across the globe.:rolleyes:

[Frank Petronio]

I am sure there are good repairpeople in the UK but in case you can't find one readily, a good American place that is not too expensive yet good and fast is Camera Wiz, aka Frank Marshman, phone 540-434-8133, 169 Pleasant Hill Rd, Harrisonburg VA 22801, USA.

He CLAs all of my view lenses for under $100 and one week every time. He does work for Emmett Gowin and Sally Mann.

If you send only the shutter it shouldn't be too expensive.

[BennehBoy]

Thanks for the replies everyone, it's pretty much what I thought.

A couple of things I need to consider:
* Storing set at T or B - I didn't know this helped.
* Firing each speed 10 or so times once per month - also wasn't aware of this.

Now for another question, I loaned my 8x10 outfit to a friend (who's a pro and used this type of gear before) and he was the last one to shoot with this - is it at all possible to put the shutter out of tolerance by doing things such as:

* changing the shutter speed whilst it is cocked?
* trying to preview whilst cocked or vice versa?

I don't want to blame the repair tech since it's more than likely that it could have a) been inadvertently abused b) had a knock. Hence why I'm not going to name them here,

Thanks again for the help.

[Frank Petronio]

It doesn't hurt to do what you say but in general these Copals are very robust and most of the time you can pick up a lens that hasn't been used for a couple of years, cycle it through a few times and you're just fine. It really takes some effort to mess them up.

[Photomagica]

I'm a technician who has serviced a very large number of Copal and other shutters. This definitely should not have occurred and the problem should be discussed with the repair technician. While I recommend a shutter in commercial studio use be serviced every 12 to 24 months, Copals I've serviced have been running perfectly when tested after a decade.

The most probable causes are inadequate cleaning of the shutter prior to re-lubrication, leaving some old hardened lubricants in place, and/or the use of inappropriate lubricants. All critical components should be ultrasonically cleaned in solvent to completely strip old lubricants and then carefully re-lubricate with modern non-hardening low temperature lubricants.

You do not need to fire a shutter regularly to keep it in shape. This might have some positive effect if inappropriate lubricants are used, however with the right lubricants a Copal can be left unused for years and still work fine.

While "old wives tales" abound about about this, I've seen no actual evidence that the state in which you store the shutter matters. Though lots of people will tell you otherwise, storing a shutter cocked, uncocked or at a particular speed or open or closed simply doesn't matter. I've seen it all and as I said, I've seen no evidence of any bad effects.

I do store my shutters uncocked because then there is less strain over time on the mainspring, though Hasselblad V lenses are stored cocked and this has no undesirable effect, so there is no actual evidence for my practice. If I happen to leave a shutter cocked, I don't worry about it.

Changing the shutter speed while a Copal is cocked or using the preview cocked or uncocked is fine - no harm will occur. Copals are designed so this is OK. In fact they are beautifully designed shutters and I admire the quality of design and fabrication every time I have one apart.

I hope you get your shutter working with a minimum of fuss.

[BennehBoy]

Thanks - I'll certainly be asking about the type of lubricant used.

[Thom Bennett]

As a conservative estimate we fire our Copal shutters between 7,500 and 12,500 times a year in our studio. About once a year we have one go down and, if we don't, we send them for CLA's yearly anyway.