Buying a Scitex Eversmart Jazz: Dirt-Cheap, but Smart? [Archive]

amateriat

15-May-2010, 00:11

Kindly pardon my status as something of a 35mm interloper here; I was searching on Another Photography Site (no, no, not Pnet), for a question about a Big, Heavy and once Crazy-Expensive flatbed scanner, and was advised (by Frank Petronio) to bounce the question off the Big Camera people here.

The scanner in question is this (http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/sys/1734203774.html) one. The seller is the original owner, and she tells me it's in good working order. The price, or course, it ridiculously low. But I'm wondering abut a few things.

- It's big. It's heavy. I'll need help getting it up a three-flight walk-up. I'm not certain if I'll find a place to park this thing (assuming my Significant Other doesn't freak and insist I start backing out of the apartment with it). Not a tiny issue.

- Bulbs/parts: I'm assuming that the thing is truly industrial-grade (for $13k originally, I would imagine so, but enlighten me if I'm missing something), but things like bulbs eventually blow (only had one scanner that I ever had to replace a bulb in, however), so what am I in for in terms of replacement cost, availability, and being able to install the things myself? Will there be a Dance of 1000 Calibration Procedures to endure, involving possibly-unavailable hard/software?

- I'll mainly be laying down lots of slides/negs for assorted purposes, including good-quality work prints and enlarged contact sheets. I already have a UMAX PowerLook 2100XL for some of this stuff. Spec sheets aside, what should I expect from the Jazz in terms of overall improvement? Is this overkill, like buying an old F1 car for street racing?

- Software: the owner believes this won't run on anything newer than Mac OS 8.6. I actually have access to a very warmed-over Power Mac 7600 running OS 9.2.2 and X 10.3.9. If I want to run it on 9 or later, am I totally SOL? VueScan is generally my main scanning app: there's no mention of this scanner (or anything from Creo/Scitex) on Hamrick's site, so I'm presuming for the moment that it's unsupported.

Besides the two-men-and-a-boy-to-lift-it aspect, what am I asking for here?

- Barrett

Daniel Stone

15-May-2010, 01:04

for $50(or $100, take the system honestly), it's a nice scanner. A friend of mine picked one up from a lab closing here in LA, he got it for like $500 4 years ago or so. Still uses it to this day, with an ancient mac of course ;).

but compared to even the newer epson v-series of scanners, this thing is still the best for the price(especially $50)

make sure they didn't put a typo and mean $500.

check out the bulbs, and do a test scan or TWO before buying it.

just my $.02

-Dan

sanking

15-May-2010, 06:07

- Software: the owner believes this won't run on anything newer than Mac OS 8.6. I actually have access to a very warmed-over Power Mac 7600 running OS 9.2.2 and X 10.3.9. If I want to run it on 9 or later, am I totally SOL? VueScan is generally my main scanning app: there's no mention of this scanner (or anything from Creo/Scitex) on Hamrick's site, so I'm presuming for the moment that it's unsupported.

Besides the two-men-and-a-boy-to-lift-it aspect, what am I asking for here?

- Barrett

I don't know which version of the Scitex operating software comes with this scanner but chances are very good that it will run on MAC OS 9.2.2, which is the last of the classical MAC operating systems, and by far the most stable. I own an Eversmart Pro from about the same period and operate it with a MAC G4 768 Mhz with dual boot into OS 10.3.9 or OS 9.2.2. Eversmart scanners are not supported by either Silverfast or Vuescan, apparently because they use a proprietary stitching routine that can not be copied.

If you go to http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ScanHi-End/?yguid=111435302 and look in the files setions you will find .pdf manuals on setting up and operating the Eversmart Jazz and the software.

In order to set up and calibrate the scanner you will need software and a calibration slide, which is a large transparency that fits over the registration pins of the scanner. When you run the software the scanner does a series of self-diagnosis tests for focus, light intensity, stitching, etc. to make sure everything is working as it should. You really want to make sure you get the calibration slide because if you have to buy it separately the cost will be $200+. Support for the scanner can only come through third parties as Creo/Kodak is out of this business.

I managed to get my Eversmart Pro up a flight of stairs with no problem at all. I simply walked into the local gym holding up two $20 bills and asked for help. Two very muscular kids quickly accompanied me back to my house and had the scanner upstairs in about two minutes.

In terms of scan quality the Eversmart Jazz should be quite a bit better than V700/750.

Sandy King

Evanjoe610

15-May-2010, 06:52

Barrett,
I have (2) Jazz, with one as a Jazz+. The Jazz + is a bit better then the Jazz.

Software, I run mine on an ancient Mac G3 Biege Tower on OS9.22. I have to check which version software. BULBS are no longer available, hence the second scanner with extra bulbs (total of 6!!) I will check which version software I have.

As Sandy stated, make sure you have that calibration slide. If you do decide to buy it, start up the scanner and Lock it Down for the scanner CCD head. 3 Floors of stairs will be a major Pain. I had some friends over for a BBQ and they help me set up my scanner(s). I think that i have Software version 3.1 (for SCSI and OS9.22) and I might be able to get Version 3.5 (OSX up to 10.28, not sure if it will go beyond that!) and it will work either as SCSI or Firewire.....

If your chromes are SHARP and has perfect exposure tonality, then your scans will be great. I take all post scanned images into Lightroom for minor correction and any additional edit work is done in Photoshop.

Evan

Ivan J. Eberle

15-May-2010, 07:10

sanking

15-May-2010, 07:29

Are these early Jazz scanners 8 or 16 bit (A/D hardware capture level)?

I ask because many/most flatbeds of the era used in desktop publishing were 8 bit. Fine for the intended task but anything besides a perfectly exposed transparency is unlikely to scan well for an acceptable fine-art print if 8 bit (forget about using an 8-bit scanner with LF negs; applying large curves or gamma moves to even a well-scanned 8bit file can result in banding).

It is true that most flatbeds of the period (drum scanners as well) were 8 bit scanners. It is not true that large curves or gamma changes can not be applied to these files. I do it all the time with 6X12 cm and 5X7" B&W negatives and no one will ever see banding or posterization in my prints.

If you are scanning B&W LF negatives the key is to scan in RGB, preparing the file as best you can on screen before making the scan. With the Eversmart scanners the conversion from analogue to digital is actually made in 14 bit but the save is in 8 bit with older scanners (Eversmart scanners from the Pro II and newer save in 16 bit). As soon as you get the scan into Photoshop change the file to 16 bit grayscale and you can then do apply curves and tonal changes to the file without risk of posterization. Canging an 8 bit file to 16 bit will not create more tones but it will prevent the loss of tones from rounding off. Or you can just continue to work in 24 bit RGB, applying the B&W conversion in Photoshop. The key is to avoid doing corrections on the 8 bit grayscale file, but it is possible to do a huge amount of tonal corrections on B&W negatives that are in 24 bit RGB or 16 bit grayscale without running into posterization or banding problems.

Sandy King

Vertex Ninja

15-May-2010, 08:20

Absolutely agree with what Sandy has said. I have a Jazz+ that I run via a g4 and OSX. I have not once experienced banding that would be visible in a print. Just do any major corrections in the Eversmart software and you won't have any problems what-so-ever. I'm not sure, but if the Jazz uses the same bulbs as the jazz+, they are still available and run $50-100 a piece(or at least they were 1 year ago). I got my replacements from Genesis, but there is another supplier. Search the forums for my post about Jazz+ bulbs.

As far as quality, I've been pretty happy. Astia scans great, Velvia and Provia scan decently enough if they are not too dark or are ever so slightly overexposed. Negatives scan about as good as I'd ever want at native res or slightly above. The only problem I have with the scanner is the flare; use of the masks is pretty critical. You'll likely want to clean the mirrors, lens, and glass cover over the sensor. Doing so made quite a bit of difference on mine. Be super careful as the mirrors are coated on the surface rather than beneath the glass. The noise(sound not digital) is also pretty obtrusive, but nothing that can't be handled if it doesn't run 24/7.

Email me at bmwolfatgmaildotcom if you'd like some full size 35mm or 645 scans to poke around with.

edit: I have the latest software and the firewire adapter, so I can run it in OSX. I run the g4 headless and VNC into the machine from my other computers. This is nice because I can be downstairs controlling the scanner upstairs. Email me for any info.

Evanjoe610

15-May-2010, 09:06

amateriat

15-May-2010, 11:05

Thanks for all the info so far.

At the moment, I'm uncertain as to whether I'm going to drag the thing home with me, but if I can't manage it, I have two clients who seem more than mildly interested, so it won't be a wasted trip to check it out in an hour or so. (Of course, if I'm sufficiently blown away by the thing, I'll be feverishly figuring out what stuff to jettison from my workspace, as well as how to sweet-talk Galfriend into not going Skynet on my butt for this...)

Keep the info coming. More later!

- Barrett

sanking

15-May-2010, 13:23

The only problem I have with the scanner is the flare; use of the masks is pretty critical. You'll likely want to clean the mirrors, lens, and glass cover over the sensor. Doing so made quite a bit of difference on mine. Be super careful as the mirrors are coated on the surface rather than beneath the glass. The noise(sound not digital) is also pretty obtrusive, but nothing that can't be handled if it doesn't run 24/7.

The base glass of all Eversmart scanners, except for the Jazz, has an anti-reflection coating, similar to to the coating on lenses to minimize reflections.

My understanding is that the Eversmart Jazz scanners were made by Microtek, not by Scitex. They are excellent scanners but some cost saving compared to regular Eversmart can be noted. The lack of anti-reflection coating on the base glass is one example of cost saving.

Eversmart scanners make a lot of noise when moving the head. The first time I ran one I was sure something was broken but turned out that this is normal. But at times it sounds like there are a bunch of evil elves in there banging on the side of the scanner.

Sandy King

Evanjoe610

15-May-2010, 14:28

Sandy,

Which color frame would that be? I remember Bill talking about it. I have a black frame glass in my Eversmart Pro II and a purple frame glass in my Jqzz+ and Jazz.

Evan

sanking

15-May-2010, 14:43

Sandy,

Which color frame would that be? I remember Bill talking about it. I have a black frame glass in my Eversmart Pro II and a purple frame glass in my Jqzz+ and Jazz.

Evan

The black frame base glass is coated. The purple frame glass is not coated. The coated glass is preferable for most work but you could fluid mount on the non-coated glass without worrying about scratching it.

Sandy King

Kirk Gittings

15-May-2010, 14:58

FWIW, I have a Jazz+ I bought off Ebay from Genesis. I'm not currently running it for lack of space, but it ran great when I did. All of the info above from Sandy about 8 bit workflow and compromises in the Jazz series etc. are true to my knowledge and limited experience. But it is a great scanner capable of professional results. It is no drum scanner for sure but a cut above any Epson 750 (which I also own and use) or an older Imacon.

Evanjoe610

15-May-2010, 18:29

Sandy and Kirk,

Thanks for the information. Would any of you know what was the very last version of software for the Jazz & Jazz+, that would allow it to run a PowerPC G5?

The information I recieved was software version 3.5 and that it could run under SCSI with the Adaptec 29006 card. I think that there was also a Scitex Firewire upgrade kit available.

I could go with a Ratoc Firewire adapter, but just need to what was the last version software version.

Thanks in advance,

Evan

Vertex Ninja

15-May-2010, 19:07

Byran,

Which version software are you using on OSX? Is it Version 3.5? I know that with this version you can use it with a SCSI card (Adaptec 2906). I guess that you are using the Ratco Firewire convertor?

Can you tell me your configuration setup? I plan to update my G3 to a PowerPC G5.
Evan
Evan,
I'm not next to my machine right now, but I believe I'm running 2.6.3. Don't hold me to that, I'll report back later when I'm sure. It says Oxygen Scan, but it's my understanding that it's really just the old Eversmart software updated to run on OSX. My Jazz plus has the official firewire upgrade from Creo.

Vertex Ninja

15-May-2010, 19:26

The base glass of all Eversmart scanners, except for the Jazz, has an anti-reflection coating, similar to to the coating on lenses to minimize reflections.

My understanding is that the Eversmart Jazz scanners were made by Microtek, not by Scitex. They are excellent scanners but some cost saving compared to regular Eversmart can be noted. The lack of anti-reflection coating on the base glass is one example of cost saving.

Eversmart scanners make a lot of noise when moving the head. The first time I ran one I was sure something was broken but turned out that this is normal. But at times it sounds like there are a bunch of evil elves in there banging on the side of the scanner.

Sandy King

Yeah, mine has the anti-newton glass. I'd really like to pick up the Anti-reflective glass if I could find it at a price that didn't cost me my appendages.

While cleaning my machine I also noticed that the lens is made by Ace Optical. It's my understanding that Rodenstock makes the lens for the pro and up. This could be another reason for the flare. The flare is not a deal breaker, but it's definitely there on very contrasty slides and if I don't use the masks.

I've noticed that the fans are pretty dang loud on mine too, not like they are dying, but like they are industrial fans spinning at high speed... basically like little hairdryers! Definitely some evil elves doin' their best, but they do good work, so we can't complain too much. :p

Evanjoe610

15-May-2010, 19:26

Vertex Ninja

16-May-2010, 07:59

Bryan,

Software version 2.6.3 will allow you to run the Jazz and Jazz+? Wow! I was under the impression that Oxygen was not written for the Jazz series. But then I can't confirm if that is true or not. Based on what I was told by a Scitex engineer, Version 3.5 was written for the Jazz & Jazz+ only to allow it to be used in either SCSI or with Firewire upgrade kit from Scitex. Id this software was Oxygen, I would not know about it.

Please let me know what version software you using on that Jazz.

Thanks,

Evan

Yeah, I may be wrong on that number, but it does say Oxygen Scan. I'll check it out tonight to make sure and let you know. If I don't have the latest version for the Jazz I'd sure like to get it.

Edit: You're probably right Evan. Looking over the chart it must be 3.5.0.1 because I can only use up to panther or maybe tiger. Not sure why I remembered 2.6.3. I'll still double check.

Ivan J. Eberle

16-May-2010, 11:01

...As soon as you get the scan into Photoshop change the file to 16 bit grayscale and you can then do apply curves and tonal changes to the file without risk of posterization. Canging an 8 bit file to 16 bit will not create more tones but it will prevent the loss of tones from rounding off...

Sandy King

Working in color, my experience with this workflow has not been so positive.

I find native 16-bit files to be much more elastic before banding or posterization occurs, than are Photoshop 16-bit mode-selected 8-bit native files. It's been particularly apparent with scans of color negs, where the limited density range of the neg gets expanded into too few bits.

Another problem encountered with a scanner dedicated to an older computer was that the RAM usually maxed out 500MB or 1GB. Which sure seemed like a lot and cost an arm and a leg back in the day, but 16-bit scanning at maximum resolution can severely tax the resources of an 90's era Mac, page outs to disc, etc. and might regularly bomb it.

sanking

16-May-2010, 12:15

Working in color, my experience with this workflow has not been so positive.

I find native 16-bit files to be much more elastic before banding or posterization occurs, than are Photoshop 16-bit mode-selected 8-bit native files. It's been particularly apparent with scans of color negs, where the limited density range of the neg gets expanded into too few bits.

Another problem encountered with a scanner dedicated to an older computer was that the RAM usually maxed out 500MB or 1GB. Which sure seemed like a lot and cost an arm and a leg back in the day, but 16-bit scanning at maximum resolution can severely tax the resources of an 90's era Mac, page outs to disc, etc. and might regularly bomb it.

I did not claim that 8 bit files were as good as 16 bit files. However, with the proper work flow, which involves making as many corrections as possible in the prescan to take advantage of the Eversmart's 14 bit analogue to digital conversion, and then converting the 8 bit file to 16 bit before making any corrections, it is possible to do extensive corrections without causing banding or posterization. I do this all of the time with both B&W and color negatives.

As for the computer, for scanning with the Eversmart I use a MAC G4 that has 1.5 gig of Ram and have no problem at all scanning files up to about 1 gig in size. Naturally I transport these files to another computer for processing.

Sandy King

Vertex Ninja

17-May-2010, 08:45

Evan and others,
As promised, I had a look at my software and it is indeed 3.5.0. Here is a screen capture that shows the identity crisis it seems to be having. Notice "Eversmart Scan" on the dock icon and "oXYgen Scan" on the title bar. PM me if you need more info. :)

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/bmwolf/350.jpg

I'll continue to beat this horse and agree again with Sandy. While I'd like to have a 16 Bit file and make all corrections in Photoshop, the 8 bit files are not limiting in any way other than a bit of convenience. You just have to do the large corrections(if any) in the Eversmart software. I rarely have to do anything more than a little bit of levels and curves and final color correction in Photoshop. I am laughably far from a pro, so others experiences may vary, but I have never seen banding in a print from these scans; Slides, color neg, or B&W.

Also like Sandy, my G4 has 1.5GB of ram and I've never noticed a problem. I don't think it has to load the whole file in memory. If you watch the file which it creates the moment you hit "scan", it appears it saves the data as it goes (i.e. The file continues to get bigger until it finishes). While I have no real evidence, and have never had an issue or need to investigate, I'd imagine the scanner has the memory it needs and just streams the file to disk. Matter of fact, I regularly open the files to check them while the scanner is scanning another file and have never heard the disk thrashing. Slow to open, yes, but it's only 800mhz after all.

sanking

17-May-2010, 09:07

Evanjoe610

17-May-2010, 09:53

Bryan,

COOOL!!! That is great news for me! Now I can search for at least a PowerPC G5 that will last a couple more years. What I understood what about 3.5.0, was that it would recognize both SCSi (with Adaptec 2906 card0 a Firewire setup.

Would you be able to burn me a copy if possible? Also are you on Leopard or Tiger?

Evan

Evanjoe610

17-May-2010, 11:15

I was under the impression that the 16-bit was an Option that came with the DT. We beta-tested it several years ago, but didn't buy into it, as 8 bit by 14bit scanning was more then adequate for our end purpose of offset printing.

Someone here, please correct me if I wrong here.
For those individuals whom have the 16-bit scanning option or mode on their Setup, can you please take a Screen Grab like Bryan did for us?

Evan

Vertex Ninja

17-May-2010, 12:44

That is very interesting. So your software is called oXYgen Scan but is really just Eversmart Scan to run on a Jazz? I was under the impression that anything called oXYgen Scan allowed for 16 bit saves, which Eversmart Scan does not.

Well the splash screen says "Eversmart Scan" too, but I believe there is "oXYgen Scan" in a couple places throughout the interface. My guess is this software was wrote during the transition to the newer oXYgen scan and things just spilled over. As far as I can tell, it's essentially the same as the version I had on OS9 except for maybe the ability to rotate the scan.

BTW, I wonder if you could tell me how to make No Sharp the default with this software? I prefer to use no sharpening in scanning but the software always defaults back to Sharp-Default whenever I restart the scanning software and I have to manually set to No Sharp for every scan.

Sandy King
Yeah that is more than a bit of an annoyance, I'll let you know if I find anything. Smart sets can help with applying settings. I also wish I could turn off auto image analysis too. I often scan 35mm and there will usually be at least a few shots from each roll that I need to scan in. If it's color negative I like to neutralize the film base on a blank frame. That works when I'm doing a digital contact sheet but is a royal pain when scanning individual frames. The software auto analyzes every crop individually, and gets it wrong nearly every time; I wish I was so lucky to have an 18% gray card in every shot. Any of you know how to apply identical settings to multiple crops?

@ Evan
My memory is horrible and I only use the machine for scanning, but I believe it's Panther(10.3 or something). Email me your details and I'll send you a cd. bmwolfatgmaildotcom

Evanjoe610

18-May-2010, 05:12

Bryan and Sandy,

As far as I can remember, the No-SHARP setting has to be apply Manually. I do not think that you SAVE it as a SMARTSET, due to the fact that I'm moving my equipment around for optimum space in my office. Just bought a new workbench (weights 200+ lbs!!!) strictly to handle the weight of the scanner and also with the vibration from scanning.

Have you try to SAVE your final settings a as SMARTSET, so that you can enable it every time you need to apply the same LUT to it?

We used to set up Custom CURVES and SAVE them out with the Function Name to be used as a Good Starting point whenever we encounter similar chromes or negatives.

I hope to get a newer PowerPC G5 to run both scanners on. My PowerPC G3 Beige Tower is at its end of its lifecycle. I want to move on to the next phase of OS 10.

Vertex Ninja

18-May-2010, 17:23

Thanks Evan. I have been playing with smart sets lately, but still need to play with it a bit more. Does anyone have a source on blank masks? I could use a few more.

Vertex Ninja

21-May-2010, 19:24

...Slow to open, yes, but it's only 800mhz after all. EDIT: Make that 500mhz.

Evanjoe610

29-May-2010, 05:51

Bryan,

I received the cd yesterday. Thanks!!!

I will keep you posted as which machine I will choose in e end to run the Jazz.

Most probably a PpwerPC Dual Core G5. Now all I need to do is to locate an older version of PS7. I 'm going to try to load in DTi to convert my scan from 8 bit to 16 bit.

@ Evan
My memory is horrible and I only use the machine for scanning, but I believe it's Panther(10.3 or something). Email me your details and I'll send you a cd. bmwolfatgmaildotcom[/QUOTE]

Vertex Ninja

29-May-2010, 17:53

Evan I wouldn't bother with DTi for the 8bit to 16bit conversion unless you like editing your files in the Creo/Scitex software. Photoshop can do it just as well. Unless you can get a 16bit DT file out of the scanner from the start(if you can, please let us know) it'll still be just an 8 bit file in a 16 bit wrapper... essentially. However, doing edits in 16bit will help prevent degradation to what's there, so it's recommended.

Vertex Ninja

13-Jun-2010, 20:38

Evan,
Were you able to get everything setup with the new software? Hope so.

I was also wondering... do you know what the "extended software tools (http://www.promarketinc.com/catalog/scanners/IQ-Scanner-vs-Eversmart.pdf)" are? Would they offer any benefits when scanning negatives/positives?

Since you have both the anti-reflective and anti-newton beds, could you do a test and see if the better glass makes any difference when used on the Jazz+, particularly with slides? Astia scans pretty well, but I still get minor ghosting and halation/flare when pixel peeping. Just wondering if the better glass would help.

Also does anyone know how to put the Jazz+ into service mode? I'd like to manually move the head and get a closer look at my lens and sensor. I had to really work to see them the last time I opened it up and I want to make sure I was thorough in my cleaning.

SergeyT

13-Jun-2010, 22:22

...see if the better glass makes any difference when used on the Jazz+, particularly with slides?.

The coated glass should give you a few extra points in the dark tones. But the same quality can be achieved with the Jazz glass (purple) with wet-mounting. BTW, the purple glass is what should be used on any Eversmart with wet-mounting.

... Astia scans pretty well, but I still get minor ghosting and halation/flare when pixel peeping. Just wondering if the better glass would help.

Check and clean up your mirrors (2) and sensor covering window. Always use masks.
I do not think the better glass will help you much.

Also does anyone know how to put the Jazz+ into service mode? I'd like to manually move the head and get a closer look at my lens and sensor. I had to really work to see them the last time I opened it up and I want to make sure I was thorough in my cleaning.
I do not remember the exact details...but the head can be moved using the utility which comes on CD. It works under OS 9 via SCSI...there should be an input box to enter the head position and the button "Move".

Vertex Ninja

14-Jun-2010, 19:02

The coated glass should give you a few extra points in the dark tones. But the same quality can be achieved with the Jazz glass (purple) with wet-mounting. BTW, the purple glass is what should be used on any Eversmart with wet-mounting.

Thank you! I tried wet scanning the other night. I didn't have any "real" scanning fluid, so used some mineral oil on a disposable slide. There was not any difference, or so little as to not be noticeable. Would Kami or Prazio make a noticeable difference compared to mineral oil? I know they clean up easier, but I'm talking actual scan performance.

Check and clean up your mirrors (2) and sensor covering window. Always use masks.
I do not think the better glass will help you much.

Yes I noticed a large difference by cleaning them, but I still get some halation that is not on the film already. I'm being pretty critical here, it's not bad, but I'd like to have zero. I could not get a good look at the lens though, which is why I'd like to move the head to a better position.

I do not remember the exact details...but the head can be moved using the utility which comes on CD. It works under OS 9 via SCSI...there should be an input box to enter the head position and the button "Move".

Do you remember if it was on the software install CD or a separate disc?

Thank you for your help!

SergeyT

14-Jun-2010, 19:58

...Would Kami or Prazio make a noticeable difference compared to mineral oil? I know they clean up easier, but I'm talking actual scan performance.!
I bet you would say the same comparing scans made on each type of glass ;)
I do all the scanning wet mounted with Kami. I have not tried anything else. I love the results. Never compared them with dry scanned images.

Do you remember if it was on the software install CD or a separate disc?
On the install.

BTW, I always disable all the sharpening in the scanning software. It could greatly contribute to your issue if you do not.

Vertex Ninja

15-Jun-2010, 18:28

sanking

15-Jun-2010, 19:47

Thanks for the input Sergey! I need to get some Kami and do a proper test. Did you say you scan with a Jazz+? I remember seeing a test by Sandy with his Pro and my results were even more subtle than his. However, I hardly did an extensive test; only one slide of Astia, negatives may be different.

How do you handle masking when wet moutning? I was thinking some unexposed and developed 8x10 Velvia cut into "L" shapes would work nicely.

I'll take a look at the install CD and see if I can find that service mode.

I always leave sharpening and smoothing off. The sharpening itself isn't bad if turned low enough, but I've noticed it's the smoothing that looks really horrible. I can't imagine anyone ever wanting to use that in production. It's really shocking that it's the default setting! :eek:

Yes, in comparing the 5X7 scan, which as I recall was at maximum optical resolution with the Pro, 3175 spi, I did not see a lot of difference in scan quality between the fluid and dry mount scans. However, I would have to admit that there was some slight improvement in micro-contrast, and that being the case I have elected to always fluid mount whenever practical. Once you get used to fluid mounting and have the materials on hand the work flow is just as fast when fluid mounting as when dry scanning.

One of the features that I most dislike about the Eversmart Scanning application is that there is apparently no way to save a profile that turns off the default sharpening feature so every time the program restarts you have to set the scanning parameters again. In fact, they must be reset *after* the prescan as well. If anyone knows of a way to turn this off, or save a profile that disables default scanning, please let me know the details.

Sandy King

SergeyT

15-Jun-2010, 20:44

... I've noticed it's the smoothing that looks really horrible. I can't imagine anyone ever wanting to use that in production. It's really shocking that it's the default setting! :eek:

My experince is with a Jazz+.
I believe smoothing is for reflective scanning. I never had it on by default and never touch that setting.

I found no way to make the "No sharp XXX" stay there as default setting. But I see the need in turning it off for each scan as part of the workflow. Like you have to open the lens shutter when composing and focusing and close it before you pull the DS out to take the shot.

Evanjoe610

16-Jun-2010, 11:23

Bryan,

Sorry for the late reply. Been busy with school & my search for a job. I am in the process of "upgrading" my old G3 Beige Tower to a PowerPC G5 Quad-Core 2.5mhz machine. If the computer is okay without any problem, I will be lugging it home tonight. Is your Jazz+ on a SCSI cable or on an aftermarket FireWire setup? I was looking at the Ratoc Firewire adapter as an option.

I plan to migrate my Jazz + over to it i SCSI mode using the Adaptec 2906 card. Hopefully it will work with you software. Once that baby is up and running, I will setup the Eversmart Pro II by Firewire and run them independently when the needs arise.

The smoothing, based on my recall, were used as Sergey suggested for reflective arts. Sometimes we had oversized reflective artwork shot on 8 X 10 transparency film (backup media to the original). We will scan in these 8 X 10 transparency film and use smoothing whenever we fell that the image appeared too sharp and that if viewed on max detail, the pixels will start "stepcasing". Occasionally we (the other imaging folks) all used it whenever we feel that the pixels will get distorted. That was before the latest version of Photoshop appeared in the world of imaging. We were using Photoshop 6.0 in conjunction with the scanner. At a later point we moved up the chain of version software to its current version of CS4. WE moved slower then the industry norm due to the many end users within the company and also outside vendors.

Vertex Ninja

16-Jun-2010, 18:03

Thanks guys. Just to be clear, there are two smoothing options. One is for descreening prints and there is another smoothing section in the sharpening dialog. I'm talking about the latter. I assume it is grain reduction. That is the setting that makes the default sharpening look so bad. The sharpening itself, is just unsharp mask if I'm not mistaken.

Evan, I am using the Creo adapter. Good luck with the job search and keep us posted!

chacabuco

16-Jun-2010, 19:10

For those who wet mount on Creos (I have a Jazz) do you use a mask with the mounted negative?

Evanjoe610

17-Jun-2010, 07:38

Byran,

Thank you! Well I bought a PowerPC G5 Quad-Core computer last night. I am in the midst of setting it up for my Jazz+ and also my Pro II. This is to replace my older G3 Beige Tower. I was told that i could use the Adaptec 2906 SCSI card for my Jazz+ on the "new" computer. I was hoping that some one here has an aftermarket hookup by a Ratoc Firewire adapter. Is anyone here using such a configuration and give some advise regarding its use?

Bryan, for your Jazz+, are you using a G5 or G4? What s the version OS you are using on it? On my "new" G5, I have OS 10.4.11 Tiger. My friend gave me OS X Leopard for PowerPC.

I know that the Eversmart Pro II will work on OX 10.4.11, but not so sure if it would work under Leopard? Any users on Leopard?

Evan

Vertex Ninja

17-Jun-2010, 18:56

Evan,
No problem. I have a g4 with a 500mhz processor and 1.5 GB of ram. I'm running OS 10.3.something. I believe the EverSmart scan 3.5 will run on OSX up to 10.4, but don't quote me.

I'm envious of your Pro II and Sandy with his Pro. The 2540SPI Jazz+ gets most of the important detail off larger films and the shots I take with 35mm never really get printed big, so I'm not missing much there I suppose. However, I'd still like more for 6x9 even though I'm probably not really exceeding 50 LP/mm. Some would argue that anything more than the lens/film resolution is a waste of hard disk space. I tend to agree, but I feel I'm missing a bit of the film's subtlety, or character when only scanning at 2540. Long story short, I see a pro II or higher in my future. :)

Evanjoe610

19-Jun-2010, 05:37

Byran,

I guess that the software you gave me will run without a Firewire setup. Otherwise I will have to attempt a Ratoc Firewire adapter to run the Jazz+.

On the other hand, I could use the Adaptec 2906 SCSI card from my old G3 and run the scanner that way.

I see if I'm able to upgrade from OS 10.411 Tiger to Leopard and run the scanners. If not, then I will just reload OS10.411 Tiger back into the machine.

I will keep you posted. Thanks for your info.

Evan

Evanjoe610

19-Jun-2010, 05:41

Bryan,

Thanks for the info. I will see if I'm able to run my Jazz+ using the Adaptec 2906 SCSI card in my G5. If not, then I will try the Ratoc Firewire adapter as my main converter.

I try to see if I upgrade from Tiger (OX 10.411) to Leopard if the scanner is able to recognize the software upgrade and run. If not, then i will downgrade.

Thanks for your help.

SergeyT

3-Nov-2010, 23:38

That is very interesting. So your software is called oXYgen Scan but is really just Eversmart Scan to run on a Jazz? I was under the impression that anything called oXYgen Scan allowed for 16 bit saves, which Eversmart Scan does not.

I had a chance to play a bit with oXYgen 1.x and 2.x which was originally designed to run a ProII. I'm able to run Jazz+ using it. But once I connect the Jazz+ the DT support simply disappears from the scan Setup dialog and it starts looking exactly like EversmartScan. Once a ProII is connected the DT support related items come back in.
The EversmartScan 3.5 behaves in the very similar way. It allows to run both ProII and Jazz+ as well.

I think the GUI shell and the driver are "universal" , capable of detecting the scanner type and capabilities and adjusting the available to user feature set accordingly. I think that ability to run a particular scanner from particular oXYgen or Eversmart release comes down to 3-5 scanner specific files which are either included or not with the particular installation CD.

Obviously Jazz does not have the raw data transfer capability and therefore no DT support is accessible for it in the GUI neither with EversmartScan nor with oXYgen.

Vertex Ninja

4-Nov-2010, 17:11

SergeyT

4-Nov-2010, 20:39

Wow, that is very interesting. It would be very nice if a clever hacker could somehow enable the saving of 16 bit scans for the scanners that currently don't support it. Surely it's not a hardware limitation?

I think that is exactly it, unfortunately. Otherwise, Kodak would not offer replacement boards to convert Pro into ProII.

Vertex Ninja

5-Nov-2010, 17:23

I think that is exactly it, unfortunately. Otherwise, Kodak would not offer replacement boards to convert Pro into ProII.

Hmmm, very good point. I wonder, what is the limiting factor? If they have the capability to work with the higher bit's internally, but then aren't able to output them. A separate chip that handles the transfer maybe(I haven't a clue about these technicalities)?

Bryan

mcfactor

2-May-2011, 08:49

I have been offered a creo jazz+ for free, essentially. The only catch is it is on the 4th floor of a walk-up and it needs to be taken to my apt, which is a 3rd floor walk-up. I shoot mostly 8x10 and I need a good scanner for it. The scanner is supposedly in good working condition and includes the calibration strip, cords, and original software.

I have 2 questions: the first is, is the quality better than an epson v750? and what has to be done to secure the scanner for transport?

Thanks,
Noah

mcfactor

2-May-2011, 13:03

nevermind

mcfactor

20-May-2011, 18:03

Hi,

So I managed to get an eversmart Jazz+, I believe the same one the original poster was talking about it. It was $25 and I had to carry it down 4 flights of stairs. Anyway...

It came with a firewire converter and Eversmart Scanning version 3.5 that says it works with os x. I have an old ibookG4 that has os 10.4. the software installed fine, and the computer recognizes that the scanner is hooked up, yet when i try to open the eversmart software, it tells me that there the "db serial" does not match the scanner serial number. When I try to open the instal/utilities it gets to opening screen, then crashes.

Does anyone have an ideas about how to fix this? It seems like there is some kind of firewire-reading error, but the "creo scanners explorer" reads that the scanner is attached, so it seems like I should be able to fix this somehow.

Thanks,
Noah

sanking

20-May-2011, 19:02

mcfactor

24-May-2011, 13:35

Preston

24-May-2011, 14:16

There's nothing like driver hell to ruin one's day. You might look at running the scanner via an earlier version of the OS in a virtual machine. It may not work, but could save you from having to come up with another computer, if it does do the trick.

I can certainly sympathise with your dilemma! I have an older Monaco Optix XR calibration tool whose driver would not install on a new Win 7-64 bit box. I had to shell out more money for a NEC branded iOne to work with SpectraView 2. I'm a happy camper, now. However, it galls me I had to suspend the use of a perfectly good piece of hardware, and spend even more money!

I hope you can get your scanner up and running!

--P

sanking

24-May-2011, 14:24

I guess I will have to get another computer. I just find it hard to believe that there is not some easy software patch or way to fix this.

The software installs on the computer, opens for a minute, then crashes.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

Yes, it would probably be an easy patch, but it may not exist. I believe the Jazz scanners were out of production by the time OS 10.4 came out, and the SCSI to Firewire connection is tricky. I know at least two other photographers who were not able to get the Firewire connection to work with EverSmart Jazz and Pro II scanners with newer versions of OSX like 10.4, but the software did work with older versions like 10.2 and 10.3.9.

Also, no need to get a new computer to try this. You can install older versions of the MAC OSX system on the same hard drive and boot from either system.

Sandy King

mcfactor

25-May-2011, 09:42

Evanjoe610

26-May-2011, 05:40

Maybe I will give that a shot. the only thing I am worried about is that the ibook came with ox 10.4 installed and I have heard that you cannot go backwards in operating systems, but perhaps if the disk is partitioned, it will work.

Noah,

Like Sandy mentioned, you would have to use either OS10.2.8 (Jaguar?)) or 10.3.9 (Panther?) OS10.4.11 (Tiger) would not work on the Jazz or Jazz+. Version 3.5, which you have works great in OS10.2.8 and so-so in OS10.3.9.

I have a Jazz & Jazz+ that I run on my old G4 on OS10.2.8 without any hiccups.
Just make sure that you download all the associated Upgrades for OS10.2.8 or OS10.3.9 IF you go this route. If you, find an older G4 MMD (last version), max out on the RAM and drop in another HD. I have my old G4 setup for Dual Boot into OS9.22 Classic & OS10.2.8 on the Primary HD and OS10.3.9 on the Secondary HD.

Use the built-in SCSI card as ti will recognize the scanner...

Evan

mcfactor

31-May-2011, 07:30

Hi,

Thanks for everyone's help. I broke down and purchased a G4 with os 10.3 with a monitor and keyboard for $100 (making the total for the scanner, computer, monitor, and keyboard $125). I am happy to report that the scanner works perfectly with the firewire converter! It just installed the disk, plugged in the scanner, and it worked. Now i just have to order the wet-mounting kit from Aztek and I will be all set.

Thanks again,

Noah

mcfactor

1-Jun-2011, 12:21

I have one more question (I swear). Is it safe to wet-mount directly to the glass with something like Kami fluid?

Thanks,
Noah

sanking

1-Jun-2011, 12:30

I have one more question (I swear). Is it safe to wet-mount directly to the glass with something like Kami fluid?

Thanks,
Noah

If your scnaner glass has an slightly etched glass on top, and most Jaz and Jazz+ cameras did come equipped that way, it is safe to fluid mount on this glass.

However, if your scanner came wit one of the anti-reflective coating that were thpically included with all Eversmart scanners, with the excetion the Jazz models, you must be very careful in fluid mounting with this surface becaue it scratches eaily, about like a camera lens.

Sandy Kinf

mcfactor

1-Jun-2011, 12:45

Got it, the scanner has a slightly etched glass, so as soon as I get the fluid, I will mount directly to the glass. Thanks,

Noah

mcfactor

29-Jun-2011, 06:23

Ok, so a month later, I've got the wet mounting down and I think I understand the operations of the scanner pretty well.

However, I have just started to see a set of colored lines running through the length of the scan. I took the mirror off last night and cleaned it with a mircro fiber cloth. I also used a rocket blower to blow out the lens and tried to get to the CCD, but I wasnt sure I actually was reaching it. The lines got a lot fainter after the cleaning, but are still there. In everyone's expert opinions, is the dust on the mirror or the sensor? If it is on the sensor, how difficult is it to clean?

Thanks,
Noah

SergeyT

29-Jun-2011, 15:49

Make sure it passes all optical tests.
Make sure the calibration part of the base glass which says "Keep clean" is perfectly clean (spotless), so the corresponding part of the top glass.

mcfactor

30-Jun-2011, 07:14

It passes all the tests. I took off the side panel and the top panel last night and found the sensor. I cleaned all the mirrors and dusted the sensor with the rocket blower. I also cleaned the calibration part of the base glass, then ran the calibration process again.

The scans are now *almost* perfect. There is still a very, very faint line, that I guess I can live with.

Has anyone actually cleaned the sensor? it seems like there is a piece of protective glass in front of it that I could, gently, take a mircofiber cloth to. How sensitive is it? Am I more likely to do damage than good?

Thanks,

Noah

SergeyT

30-Jun-2011, 07:48

The protective strip can be cleaned...but extra care should be taken not to scratch it...I would do a recalibration after that because the cleaning may affect the CCD head assembly adjustments.

Those fine lines are likely a result of some build-up inside the bulb and should be easy to deal with in photoshop.
They also could be due to some micro cracks or scratches in the Mylar(if you see them in fluid mounted scans). They never bothered me and I just learned to leave with them.

So how is the quality of your Jazz+ scans (beside the color accuracy you getting with the canned profile) compared to those from V750 ? ;)

sanking

30-Jun-2011, 13:58

Noah,

You don't need to clean the sensor, just the glass that protects it.

Assuming you have now cleaned the mirror, glass in front of the sensor, and all of the other glass, you might also want to remove the bulbs and clean them as well. Even on dust spot on a bulb can sometimes cause the type of line you describe.

BTW, a recommendation that was made to me by one of the Scitex gurus was to elevate slightly the front of the scanner so that if dust fell from above it would fall off to the back rather than resting on the bulb. To do that I put a couple of 1/2" pads under the two front supports.

Any lines that I have seen are easily removed by cleaning the calibration area.

Sandy

mcfactor

5-Jul-2011, 13:10

Good ideas Sandy, I will try all of them tonight. When I first got the scanner I had taken out the two bulbs on the lower carriage and left one on the top, since I only use the scanner for transparency, but I will try cleaning the bulb again.

Sergey, I have found the quality to be a lot better than the v750. The images are sharper and more natural looking, it is almost as if there is a better dynamic range, and I am finding the color to be more accurate (which are not necessarily things inherent in the scanner itself, but they do make it easier to scan). It is also much easier to use for scanning 8x10s, there is no adjusting the height, getting the glass right in the middle of the scanner so the edges dont get cut off, etc. Of course, the trade off is the massive size, but I have already gotten to the point where I barely notice it.

Noah

SergeyT

5-Jul-2011, 18:03

I'm glad to hear that you like it. It is a fantastic machine that is capable of delivering excellent results. If carefuly adjusted in preview (especilly important for negative film) its final 8-bit per channel output is not limiting at all.

Pontman

25-Feb-2012, 09:56

Hi everyone, I also have an eversmart jazz+ scan which works fine for what I'am doing with it. I'm interested by upgrating it to mac os X but I can't find the Oxygen 3.5 software, does anyone have it and could help me? That will be great!
thank you,
thomas

tallday

3-Aug-2015, 02:42

I just picked up an eversmart jazz + with 3.1 running on an old g4 with os 9. Something. I have no access to expert mode any reason why? I am also running scsi as i cant get my hands on a firewire convert for a reasonable price. Anyone still use the scanner? I have some questions about work flow.

Thanks dave,

charlesholland

4-Feb-2016, 13:26

Glad to see I am not the only one trying to revive an eversmart jazz scanner. Me too I could use some help.
What I did up to now:

Bought a second hand eversmart jazz scanner, complete with all installation CD's, the calibration slide and the scanner parameters on a seperately floppy disc, all market as genuine scitex. The calibration slide and the floppy have the same serial number, but: the sticker with the serial number on the scanner itself is gone.
I allready had a 2nd wave scsi to firewire adapter including the driver, working flawlessly with the betterlight scanback on my ibook G4. I couldn't get the installation CD's of the scanner on this ibook G4 thus:

I bought an ibook (G3) and had someone install the original OS9.2, nothing else.

I loaded the drivers for the scsi to firewire adapter: the scanner is detected without any remarks from misses iBook

I loaded the installation CD's from the scanner: no problem detected

I did shut down the ibook, started the scanner and started the ibook again.

I followed the installation procedure from the manual from scitex. From the first time untill present I get the same message when instelling the scanner parameters: it starts with "loading from flash error: couldn't read Serial Number from flash"

I followed the instructions and entered the serial number on the calibration sheet, the same as on the floppy. When loading the parameters I get a message codes: M00409 I/O error!!, Cannot open file: "EverSmartScan.rsrc" Error number:-43

I tried to load the parameters from the diskette: the installation software didn't want to use it because it didn't match with the serialnumber from the scanner.

Conclusion: is the installation package belonging to another scanner or is the ibook not installed correctly or is the scsi to firewire connector the problem or (and this is probably the case): Inam too stupid for this?

Can anyone direct me to a solution?

SergeyT

4-Feb-2016, 14:28

When the software connects to the scanner it pulls and prints the scanner SN into the log, and if I remember correctly it is visible on the screen somewhere in the running log. Enter the SN which SW pulls from the scanner.

SergeyT

charlesholland

4-Feb-2016, 15:24

Thanks, first thing to try in the morning!

charlesholland

5-Feb-2016, 00:20

I looked: unfortunately it only states the serial number of the loaded preferences and the mismatch of the scanners serial number..... :-(
Thanks for thinking towards a solution, still all suggestions welcome :-)

charlesholland

5-Feb-2016, 02:37

Probably it is not the serial number that is mismmatching but an input/output error due to.....?

Seifenschaum

3-Jul-2023, 06:17

Hello everyone
I was able to buy an Eversmart Jazz+. Unfortunately it only runs on OS9. I have now organized a SCSI/Firewire adapter and would like to operate the scanner with OSX 10.2 or 10.3. Unfortunately, this only works with the latest software 3.5.0.1, which I unfortunately don't have and haven't been able to find until now. Does anyone have this software and would you send it to me via wetransfer. I'm also willing to pay something. That would be very nice. Thanks very much!!!