Kodak's C41 monopoly

[Ben Syverson]

Now that Fuji has stopped making C41 film in sheet film sizes, Kodak has a de facto monopoly in that area.

This is worrying on several levels. If Kodak stops, it means color LF is over. And if they decide to raise prices, there is no recourse. It's easy to envision a time when 10 count box of Portra in 8x10 costs $250.

Maybe it's time for someone to develop some really clever trichromie cameras?

[D. Bryant]

Now that Fuji has stopped making C41 film in sheet film sizes, Kodak has a de facto monopoly in that area.

This is worrying on several levels. If Kodak stops, it means color LF is over. And if they decide to raise prices, there is no recourse. It's easy to envision a time when 10 count box of Portra in 8x10 costs $250.

Maybe it's time for someone to develop some really clever trichromie cameras?
I think Fuji is relabeling their C-41 products for distribution here in the US with a reduction of products for color negative film, not wholesale abandonment of the product line.

Don Bryant

[Jan Pedersen]

There has been some confusing information going around about the Fuji color negative sheet film but as Don is saying the current 160S and C will be renamed and will in addition come in 20 sheet boxes instead of the 10 sheet boxes.

[Ben Syverson]

Let's hope so! I hate 10 sheet boxes anyway.

[Drew Wiley]

It's not likey that C41 sheet films will disappear. This is one area where Kodak has spent some R&D and made significant recent improvements. Yes, the cost is up a bit, but they are in it for profit, so if paying a little more is what keeps such film viable, we
shouldn't complain too loudly. Nothing outrageous is going to happen to the price.
But their competitor Fuji might choose to place less emphasis on competing in this
category, just as Kodak has partially thrown up the white flag when it comes to RA4
printing paper for negatives. You can't really have one without the other, but the
same company doesn't necessarily have to control both sides of the market.

[Bill_1856]

No great loss.

[Frank Petronio]

The best way to preserve C41 is to go out and shoot more of it. Kodak invented it, they should be rewarded better than some copycat.

[StevenJohn]

I guess I should be driving a Benz also. :)

[Henry Ambrose]

The best way to preserve C41 is to go out and shoot more of it. Kodak invented it, they should be rewarded better than some copycat.


Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.
I don't think color negative sheet film will be around that much longer.
I'd say we have a few years left then its over for good.
The more you shoot the longer it'll last.

[jp]

I wouldn't exactly call it a monopoly. People overuse the term for all sorts of non-monopolistic business situations.

[Ben Syverson]

If Fuji stops making C41 sheet film, Kodak will have a "natural monopoly," (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly) period.

[Robert Hughes]

If Kodak stops, it means color LF is over.
I love the smell of hyperbole in the morning!

[Drew Wiley]

Let's see ... professional scanners are going out of production, fancy digital backs go
obsolescent two years after the purchase and bankrupt the photographer, C41
film is disappearing, E6 film is disappearing, black and white film and paper are all disappearing, RA4 paper is disappearing, a comet is going to collide with earth soon, if aliens don't invade first ... wonder if they'll still allow us to use charcol and red mud to make cave paintings?

[BetterSense]

I love the smell of hyperbole in the morning!

Really though, when color film is no longer available color LF photography will be impossible. I can see it happening in my lifetime.

Maybe I should start working on a color-separation camera for doing color photography with B&W film.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Dunno about you guys, but I'm really looking forward to getting my first processed Ektar 4x5s back in the mail tomorrow.

[Sevo]

Really though, when color film is no longer available color LF photography will be impossible. I can see it happening in my lifetime.


Going by the local popularity hereabouts, I would not be surprised if colour negative vanished. It always has been very marginal hereabouts - none of the pro stores supplying me stocked CN sheet film ever since the eighties. It always has been a special order item, while I can still get the full range of E6 sheet film even today.

That may (indeed must, or Kodak would not bother to cut sheet any more) be different elsewhere. Nonetheless, sheet CN is very much less popular than slide - so there is a slim chance that all makers pull out of the former..

But as to all and any colour film, both CN and slide, vanishing, it is very unlikely - even if Kodak and Fuji drop out, there already are at least three plants that succeeded Orwo and Agfa which are technically capable of casting state of the art colour film, and predictably similar management buyouts would happen to the film divisions of Kodak and Fuji if they went the same way. The technology won't vanish, but prices will rise and the choice might eventually be down to a film each from two boutique manufacturers.

[Frank Petronio]

With a scanning workflow we really don't need a variety of emulsions, just a wide-latitude, long-range C41 film in a slow and fast ISO.

While E6 transparencies have been more popular professionally in the past, I can't think a of good reason why we even need them anymore? I've been ridiculing it for 15 years now. I suppose someone must still want to do 35mm slide shows but printing from a chrome is about as much fun as pouring battery acid into your ear.

[D. Bryant]

there already are at least three plants that succeeded Orwo and Agfa which are technically capable of casting state of the art colour film, .

What was then state of the art is no longer state of the art. If those plants could produce a competitive product they would.

I don't forsee CN film in 4x5 going away anytime soon just getting more expensive.

[Robert Hughes]

The color film panic reminds me of the audio recording tape scares of the past couple decades. The major players (Ampex, 3M, Agfa) all folded their recording tape businesses, but today the market is sourced by RMGI and ATR Magnetics for anyone who wants new product.

[mcfactor]

I agree that c-41 will not go away completely, but it is still scary to rely on one (or even two companies). Fuji is the only company still making Ra-4 paper and that is scary. If fuji decided to do what they did with c-41 film, we might not be able to, say, make contact prints for a couple of months. It is also worrysome that fuji did not attempt to give people time to prepare for this switch by stocking up (but I do like the idea of 20 sheet boxes).

[Ben Syverson]

Okay, that sounds not as scary. Honestly, it's always felt a little redundant to have both 160S and 160C (or 160NC and 160VC for that matter). I would be happy if they offered a great 160 and a great 400. But then again, I don't print traditionally, so I can tweak things in the scan. 20 sheet boxes would be fantastic.

The idea of losing Fuji Crystal Archive is terrifying. I have a hate/hate relationship with inkjet.

[Drew Wiley]

Why would Crystal Archive go anywhere, unless a better paper came along? Nearly all
the digital print machines except inkjet rely on it. And there still seem to be quite a few outfits worldwide optically printing it. Digital might seem terrifying at the moment,
but so was the age of dinosaurs, which many lesser creatures survived.

[Eric Leppanen]

Why would Crystal Archive go anywhere, unless a better paper came along?I agree. Lightjets, Chromiras, Lambdas, etc. are used to generate prints from digital as well as film cameras, as well as for general graphics arts applications. Unless a better paper comes out, I don't think Crystal Archive is going anywhere.

[JRFrench]

This angst about supply of anything film related is the biggest waste of time ever (IMHO).

Shoot what there is while its there, and enjoy it. I think you'll find when things change, you'll be able to adapt rather easily to it, its what humans do.

If you are doing this for a living then it won't dissapear without a superior alternative. If you're doing it for a hobby then why cause yourself grief over a hobby.

/rant

[Ben Syverson]

This angst about supply of anything film related is the biggest waste of time ever (IMHO).
Except maybe commenting on the angst? :p

Just kidding, I know it's silly to worry about something that hasn't happened yet. But for a hot minute there, I thought Fuji really had discontinued its C41, as it is all listed as "discontinued" on B&H, and there were multiple threads out there about the products being discontinued. It really would be disturbing if Fuji quit.

And to clarify, I wasn't saying FCA was being discontinued -- I was agreeing with mcfactor's observation that Fuji is the only company making RA4 paper, and that being worrying. I don't think it's going anywhere soon, but I'd still rather have about two other companies making the stuff.

[JRFrench]

Except maybe commenting on the angst? :p

Good point! :p

[bob carnie]

I just ordered 4x5 Ektar colour neg film, I wanted 50 sheets but was told by my supplier that it only came in 10 pack sheets.
Am I getting the correct answer from my source??

[Michael Cienfuegos]

I just ordered 4x5 Ektar colour neg film, I wanted 50 sheets but was told by my supplier that it only came in 10 pack sheets.
Am I getting the correct answer from my source??

Kodak said it would be packaged in 10 sheet boxes,so you will have five nice little boxes. :(

[JRFrench]

It was always basically the same price to buy 5x10 sheets as 1x50 sheets, like $8 difference or something. Less bulk and hassle tho.