Villa Savoye- Paris

[Mark_Se]

I will go to Paris next week and I want to take my Sinar 4x5 camera with me to photograph the villa savoye (outside of the building).

Now I have 2 questions:

1. Does anybody know if photographing the Villa Savoye is allowed with a large format camera on a tripod? (I had some problems with security guards in vienna at a museum because it looked too "professional or commercial....."

2. Is the outside of the building accessible all the time? this site: http://villa-savoye.monuments-nationaux.fr/en/

says its open from 10 am to 5 pm, but I think that regards for the building itself.

[Dominique Cesari]

The garden surrouding the villa is closed and is opened only with the building. Taking photographs had been seriously restricted in the Monuments nationaux and I presume that you need an authorization to use a tripod and probably have to pay a commercial fee.

[Mark_Se]

thank you very much
....so I think I`ll shoot it with my old nikon & t/s lenses :(

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

1. Does anybody know if photographing the Villa Savoye is allowed with a large format camera on a tripod? (I had some problems

Hello from France !
To the best of my knowledge, you have to pay a substantial fee to take a picture of Villa Savoye, but the only other restriction I know in Paris is le Louvre when you intend to set-up your tripod inside the gardens. This is a fee-area ! (or should we say : toll, like a toll-bridge ? ;-) )
I have a copy of the regulations for Le Louvre somewhere, and the fee you have to pay in principle is heavy !
This is absurd since zillions of tourists with their hand-held point & shoot camera take pictures from Le Louvre inside the gardens and are not annoyed by security guards... but a soon as you unfold your tripod... forget it !
I do not have the official regulations for Villa Savoye but this is definitely one of the very few buildings in Paris for which I would never attempt any photography-on-tripod.
However as soon as you are on the public domain outside le Louvre gardens, photography with a tripod is in principle not trestricted, and I have posted here a copy of an old letter from Préfecture de Police de Paris allowing photograophy-on-tripod in Paris in the public domain.
Le Louvre gardens therefore are not considered as the public domain, in French we have a somewhat self-contradictory expression "Domaine Privé de l'État" which means, litterally : state-owned private domain, which is not public domain.

[cjbroadbent]

For inspiration see Hiroshi Sugimoto (last picture on page) (http://arttattler.com/archivesugimoto.html).
Le Corbusier himself would have admired the brutalist approach.
Seriously - It would cost you €650.00 to do a shot for publication. You could get a tripod permit by mailing mayelin.enamoradoATmonuments-nationaux.fr with your requirements. Her office deals with photography and monuments.

[Mark_Se]

Thanks you very much Christopher, I just sent an email to Mayelin Enamorado...

[Struan Gray]

I have a friend who is a modernist architecture nut and has a website with practical information about visiting sites. His page on the Villa Savoye is here:

http://www.galinsky.com/buildings/savoye/index.htm

There's some practical information at the end. There is also a useful list of further buildings by Corbusier and others to visit if the tripod fee at Villa Savoye puts you off:

http://www.galinsky.com/europe.htm#Paris

[Tim Trapp]

Can anyone direct me to the URL of the posted letter that Emmanuel mentions below? I've searched the site with no result. I plan to take my panorama camera to Paris, so it might be helpful to have a printed copy of this letter with me. Thanks!




1. Does anybody know if photographing the Villa Savoye is allowed with a large format camera on a tripod? (I had some problems

Hello from France !
To the best of my knowledge, you have to pay a substantial fee to take a picture of Villa Savoye, but the only other restriction I know in Paris is le Louvre when you intend to set-up your tripod inside the gardens. This is a fee-area ! (or should we say : toll, like a toll-bridge ? ;-) )
I have a copy of the regulations for Le Louvre somewhere, and the fee you have to pay in principle is heavy !
This is absurd since zillions of tourists with their hand-held point & shoot camera take pictures from Le Louvre inside the gardens and are not annoyed by security guards... but a soon as you unfold your tripod... forget it !
I do not have the official regulations for Villa Savoye but this is definitely one of the very few buildings in Paris for which I would never attempt any photography-on-tripod.
However as soon as you are on the public domain outside le Louvre gardens, photography with a tripod is in principle not trestricted, and I have posted here a copy of an old letter from Préfecture de Police de Paris allowing photograophy-on-tripod in Paris in the public domain.
Le Louvre gardens therefore are not considered as the public domain, in French we have a somewhat self-contradictory expression "Domaine Privé de l'État" which means, litterally : state-owned private domain, which is not public domain.

[Bill_1856]

Buy a postcard and copy it (illegally, of course).

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

Hello all !

You'll find below the letter from Préfecture de Paris, as an answer to somebody asking for clarification about movie making in Paris. This is dated March, 2001 and I have no idea whether other documents supersede this one or not.
Nevertheless the actual situation for LF photography on a tripod, by gathering various reports from friends is
- there is no problem on the public domain,
- the list of restricted areas or fee-areas is like any list of exceptions, it is simply ... a list that we have to build and update. Villa Savoye and le Louvre Gardens being definitely a fee-area like many places under the direct administration of Monuments Nationaux. But it is like National Parks in the US, they cover only a tiny fraction of the federal territory, so for Monuments Nationaux within Paris, you still have many, many nice places downtown Paris where you can set up your tripod quietly. Sure, like inside the US National Parks, many nice shots can be take inside inside Le Louvre Gardens.... at a anominal cost. Even if it is non-commercial. I do not want to comment the regulations, the best is to live with and avoid conflicts with guards or policemen.

One should bear in mind that Le Louvre and le Louvre gardens are one of the most visited monuments in France.

page 1 http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2299/2249053878_53596e473a_o_d.png
page 2 http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2102/2248251215_293b9d495d_o_d.png
page 3 http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2142/2248251211_52c9fce67d_o_d.png

This is the origial text in French, on page 1, relevant to photography-on-tripod

<< En dehors des films..... sont dispensés d'autorisation préalable les opérations répondant aux prescriptions suivantes :
- ne pas gêner la circulation des véhicules et piétons,
- employer un maximum de 10 professionnels ( techniciens mannequins, comédiens, ... ) indépendamment du nombre de particuliers,
[comment by JC Launey, moderator of teh French gfalerie-photo webs ite : cela laisse une sacré marge pour des prises de vues photo !! et les particuliers qu'est ce ?? les badauds ? ]
- ne pas utiliser de véhicule militaire ou de police de location, ni de comédien déguisé en militaire ou policier,
- ne disposer que de moyens légers : appareil à l'épaule ou au maximum 1 appareil sur trépied, éclairages d'appoint portatifs ou au maximum deux sur trépied, alimentation électrique autonome ou par groupe électrogène portatif, absence d'effets sonores, d'effets spéciaux ou de moyens élaborés ( travelling sur rails, chariot, grue, tour, cascade....) >>

Below I'm posting a quick translation of the previous text on page one, the only section which is relevant to still photography on a tripod.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Outside commercial advertising movies, the following operations do not need a permit provided that they comply with the following rules:

- no obstruction to street/car or pedestrian traffic,
- a maximum of 10 professionals is allowed (technicians, models, actors, ...) ; non-professional people are unrestricted [note : this is quite vague but is not a real concern to LF photographers on tripod]
- no use of military or police vehicles is allowed without permit as well a actors disguised as soldiersi or policemen
- only light gear is allowed : camera-on-shoulder, or maximum one camera on one tripod, accessory lighting should be either hand held or on a maximum of 2 tripods, electrical supply should be independant or from a portable generator [comment : independant from the city's main electrical supply], special effects & equipements like camera travelling on rails, trolleys, cranes, towers, bump artists,...

---------

Well those "light" regulations actually cover the needs of the LF photographer with one tripod... in the public, no-fee domain in Paris.

Regarding the regulations for le Louvre Gardens, I had found a document on the official web site
http://www.louvre.fr/ but it has vanished. I just found the regulations inside the museum where photography is virtually prohibited, so this is simpler ;) but I did not find the present version of regulations for the Tuileries gardens nearby.
I'm sure that the "no-tripod withhout authorisation and fee" regulations are strictly enforced. I have found discussions on other French forums complaining about the situation, i.e. zillions of tourists can freely take picture outside le Louvre, but as soon as a tripod comes, immediatley come the guards...
The guys in the French forums I've seen are not able to precisely post a pointer to any official document...

Previous discussions here in this LF forum can be found using the search engine as follows
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=35938&highlight=paris

There had been a long discussion on our French forum galerie-photo.info, those who can read French will find it here in the archives. We tried to be serious, one of the group members attemped seriously and politely to go through all the procedures, he found several official texts &regulations... but as soon as he discovered that Le Louvre Grdens are a fee-area, he gave-up the project... and this virtually stopped the discussion.
http://www.galerie-photo.org/n2-f5-3161.html

Eventually, I have found a comprehensive bilingual document English-French about shooting permits for movies in France. The situation seems to be more restrictive than I though... if still photography on a tripod was regulated like that, nothing coudl be accessible to the amateur of LF photography...

http://www.filmfrance.net/pdf/Chapitre_02_2.pdf

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

I plan to take my panorama camera to Paris, so it might be helpful to have a printed copy of this letter with me.


Tim, welcome to Paris. I have in mind several examples or friends who have sucessfully set-up a camera on tripod within Paris. Simply do not come to Le Louvre and Tuileries gardens too close. Stay outside or on the opposite bank of the river Seine where you'll be able to record a magnificent panoramic shot.
I do not wish you to meet a guard or a ppliceman ; I hope that you are prepared to argue, the guys might tell you (in French) that the paper is no longer valid.. at least we'll know !! If only we exactly knew what can be done freely, what can be done after paying a fee, etc.. but the situation is frustratingly unclear.

One of our prominent contributors to our forum galerie-photo.info, François Besson, has designed and built a roto-pinhole camera in order to record 360° panoramic shots with a large format pinhole camera. He had no trouble to install and operate the heavy camera on its tripod inside Paris in the public domain.
See his article here (in English !!) on galerie-photo.com
http://www.galerie-photo.com/roto-pinhole.html

He was able to record a 360° panorama of the new library "Bibliothèque François Mitterand" located somewhere on the Right Bank donwstream from le Louvre.

[Emmanuel BIGLER]

I eventually found the official document : tariffs & regulations for professional photography inside the Domaine National and Louvre & des Tuileries, season 2009-2010 See pages 11 & 12 of the following document, where an interesting line can be found, after "free for students", "free if the images advertise for Le louvre"
http://www.louvre.fr/media/repository/ressources/sources/pdf/src_document_56068_v2_m56577569831256112.pdf

another one, regulations inside the Louvre palace & museum
http://www.louvre.fr/media/repository/ressources/sources/pdf/src_document_50534_v2_m56577569830621050.pdf

The right combination of keywords for searching was :
domaine national du louvre droits de photographie

[Tim Trapp]

Emmanuel-

Thanks so much, this information is very useful!

[luphot]

Hello,
inside private areas like villa Savoye or Le Louvres, it will be difficult to photography with LF and tripod because you'll be suspected of professionel commercial work (they have postcards to sell and contract with a photographer for it) but if you want to shoot as a fine art artiste an autorisation should be easy to obtain writing to the right personne before.
In streets law is quite restrictive but in fact commun sense may win.
Try to not disturb pedestrian or car traffic with your tripod. I'm convincted that cops ignore the precise legislation and intervene with there own feeling.
Anyway, take the picture and if some one ask, act the american artist.
We have been in Paris three days ago with "Eddie the famous" shooting 4x5. An old woman asked me because she was affraid an architect were planning transformations of her bulding.
fabrice

[eddie]

We have been in Paris three days ago with "Eddie the famous" shooting 4x5. An old woman asked me because she was affraid an architect were planning transformations of her bulding.
fabrice

i hve shot in paris twice now with noproblem....the best was with Luphot as i had him carry all my stuff.....we called it training....lol!

we should have told the old lady that we were infact going to change her building and make it "new" again....would have been fun.....but i speak such small french.....