How is working out of a backpack?

[Ed Richards]

I have been working out of a Kinesis belt system for several years. It works very well in the field, but not so well as hiking gear. It is also harder to pack up when you want to hit a restaurant. I am thinking about the Photobackpacker system - I already have their modified pack, so I would add their lens cases and a camera case. For folks with this system, how do you use it in the field, i.e., for changing lenses. I often work in places where I would prefer to not set anything on the ground. How easy is it to get things in and out while holding the bag in your hands?

[williamtheis]

er... i set the pack down on the ground and let it get dirty.

[Nathan Potter]

I use a cheapie Tamrac Extreme backpack with a TK 45 and 4 lenses with Quickloads only. I always remove from my back and set it down on a 2 X 3 ft. piece of plastic to keep it clean. The plastic is 6 mil polyethylene that folds up in my pocket. I'll temporarily set some of the equipment on the plastic while I shoot. The plastic is handy for wet grass and such - esp. in the early morning.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Richard Wasserman]

I use either a Kelty Redwing or an REI daypack, depending on what kit I'm using, and simply hang them from a hook on the center column of the tripod. One of my tripods is a Gitzo 1325 without a center column and I fabricated a hook attached to the underside of the top plate. I find this to be a very easy way to work and I don't have to worry about setting the pack down in the dirt. They are also raised up and I don't need to bend so much–an issue as I get older. The weight of the bag also helps to stabilize the tripod.

[Rory_5244]

Hmm, for these heavy backpacks I don't see any way other than having to put them down on the ground. My tripod is always wrapped in a garbage bag (people assume it's a fishing rod where I live so I get ignored) and when I'm ready to set up, the backpack rests on the garbage bag.

[36cm2]

I think the photobackpacker products are great, particularly the lens cases. I lay the pack down and can't envision working efficiently out of it if it were hanging from the tripod. The pack opening seems designed to have the pack laying on its back. I vaguely remember Doremus Scudder having something on his website about working without putting anything on the ground. You may want to check his site.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

So far I've mostly worked with folding metal technical Meridians and a Super Graphic when in the field and working LF out of a backpack. Set-up involves fewer environmental issues since the camera stores the lens inside when folded up.

I don't use the pack system you use, but do use lens wraps, and don't like them to be setting close to the ground even on a cloth for the loose crap that will inevitably blow onto them. For lens changes I stand my front-loader backpack upright, hopefully having left the lens in a top-most part of the pack, with the zipper open just enough to access down inside. If a piece isn't accessible or if doing something where I do need to set the pack down flat, I'll do so up off the ground on a large flat rock or whatever is handy. Last resort is a dry wash or sandy beach or in snow itself, but this is something I'd do without a great deal of hesitation unless it's rather windy or there's sifting snow.

Cacti and fire-ants are perhaps the biggest hazards to watch for locally for when setting the pack down-- or, most importantly, before slipping it over my shoulders again.

Issue with laying out any kind of fabric ground-cloth on sand, mud or whatnot is that you've afterwards got to stow it externally, or else you've just given a bunch of dust and grit egress inside your pack to find its way into your camera, lens, and film-holders. I figure a ground cloth isn't going to offer much additional in these conditions anyway, and a tripod apron would create more problems that it solves whenever breezy.

[Rakesh Malik]

Like most of the responders on this thread, I set my pack down to get to my LF gear. For keeping your gear out of the mud, another option is to get some of the polycro groundsheets from Gossamer Gear. They're light and inexpensive, and reasonably durable given their weight.

I'm probably going to get some of the Photobackpacker lenses cases and such, even though I don't use one of their backpacks. I think they'll help with organizing my gear so that it's more accessible. At least, I hope so. I don't ever attempt to use my LF camera without putting my pack down though, since it has both my camera and my outdoor gear (layers, shell, gloves, light, stove, shelter, sleep stuff, etc).

[Ben Hopson]

I carry a large plastic garbage bag for sitting the backpack on in damp, muddy or just plain nasty situations. I don't think I could hand hold a large format backpack and set up camera lenses etc. while doing so. Way too awkward and the risk of dropping an expensive piece of gear too high.

[jeroldharter]

I use the Photobackpacker packs. I set them on the ground but I don't let the bags get dirty. If the ground is wet, sandy, muddy, dusty, etc. I use space blanket cut in half. That packs up into the size of a compressible baseball and easily fits on one of the lower side mesh pockets on the pack. I also use it with a baby stroller. It fits sideways and it is easy enough to remove items that way.

[Kirk Gittings]

I use a hybrid Photobackpacker/Gnass setup with the PB pack and camera box and Gnass lens holders. Frankly I think you have to set it on the ground or risk fumbling everything. I have seen no problems with setting it on the ground.

[Brian Ellis]

I put my 8x10 f64 backpack on the ground - or the mud, wet rocks, damp leaves, whatever. Backpacks are like tripods, they work better when they look well-used. I couldn't do anything with it hand-held.

[Kirk Gittings]

they work better when they look well-used

Like us?

[Ed Richards]

The ground is not bad all the time, but there are times when I am working in places where that is not an option. Guess I will just get a set of Photobackpacker lens cases and give it a try.

[jim kitchen]

You should see what my backpack looks like, and smells like, after it was removed from a pack horse, especially after lying on the ground beside the pack horse... :)

jim k

[Filmnut]

I use a large Cameron backpack case that holds my Speed Graphic, 10 holders, 3 extra lenses, and some filters, and Lunasix meter.
I prefer to put it on the ground so that I can unzip it and get what I need to do my shots. I also have a couple of smaller shoulder cases that hold less, but are lighter and easier to work with, and I always carry some plastic in one its' pouches in case the ground is wet, etc.
Due to back injury many years ago, I find that the heavier backpack is easier to carry, as its' weight is more evenly distributed, than when its' hanging on one side.
Keith

[Frank Petronio]

I much rather set a backpack down in New Mexico, or in some wilderness, or even in the mud and muck of the Northwest, than where Ed is from. Remember, he is from New Orleans.... That entire, umm, part, of the country is a toxic cesspool. And in a couple of days there is going to be a collision of all that rain water washing down from Tennessee into the gigantic oil spill.

Come to think of it, screw the backpack. Ed get the Hell out of there!!!

Otherwise, while a backpack makes a lot of sense in an airport or if you have explore the back country, wouldn't it make more sense to use a couple sling - courier bag type bags with a hip belt - even two so you're balanced? I mean most of the time you'll have the camera and pod on your shoulder and you just need a smaller bag for holders and gadgets.

[civich]

Take a look at the camera packs which are in the snapshot areas of JB and Susan Harlin's website. I witnessed the pack which JB was using for a custom modified 8x10 Wisner in Dallas a couple of months ago. I was amazed to find that the totally professionally constructed pack was made by Susan and adapted to a heavy-duty Osprey harness to make it suitable for extended day trips with the 8x10 and associated gear. I believe she also uses a similar though smaller pack which she made for her 4x10. Pertinent to the OP's original question is the point that the pack is hung from the top of the Ries tripod and stabilized by affixing the waist belt to the lower legs - the pack never touches the ground nor does the equipment in the pack since accessing the contents is through the completely zippered back panel. Susan said it is unlikely that she would ever put the pack into commercial production but the same mounting technique could surely be adapted to other camera/pack/tripod combinations.
http://www.jbhphoto.com/jbhutah09/utah2009_2010a/index_2.html
http://www.jbhphoto.com/jbhutah09/utah2009_2010a/index.html

[Struan Gray]

I do something similar with my conventional rucksack: clip the haul loop or top handle to the tripod platform and then use the waist belt to keep the base between two legs. Much easier to work out of than with the pack hanging from the centre loop, and it keeps the pack higher off the ground, which is useful on boggy ground or when the wind is moving sand or snow across the surface of the ground.

[Ed Richards]

Thanks Struan! That makes more sense to me. That would stop the pack from moving. I forget who did it, but someone used the laser pointer test to show that hanging anything from the center column just made movement worse unless the weight also rested on the ground to damp the movement.

[tgtaylor]

[QUOTE=Frank Petronio;586082]...New Orleans.... That entire, umm, part, of the country is a toxic cesspool. And in a couple of days there is going to be a collision of all that rain water washing down from Tennessee into the gigantic oil spill.
QUOTE]

Actually, New Orleans tap water is quite good and has a real water taste. It even won an award back when I was a kid growing-up in the City. You wouldn't think so since it gets its water from the Mississippi whose origins are way up in Minnesota.

Growing up in NO where the tap water was good, I have always been picky about water. Traveling to other states when I was a kid, there were places that I couldn't believe that people would actually live there having to drink that crap. My best friends dad bought a section (640 acres) in Mississippi and the water there was terrible until they dug an artesian well near the house and then everyone would congregate around the well as if it was a barroom. Great drinking water that came out the ground ice cold!

Even now I'm still terribly picky about water. For example for several years I lived in Fremont just a few miles down the freeway - or "expressway" as we called it in NO. I loved Fremont but I couldn't take the tap water so I bought a water cooler and a 5 Gal bottle which I refilled at a Safeway for .33 cents/gal. Then I moved up to the Hayward area where the tap water is good - must come from Hetch Hetchy. But I still keep the water cooler filled which could come in handy in a major earthquake.

I'm an active long distance hiker and I schedule my trips early in the season when the snow is still in the passes, the water is running fast and cold, and taste good. This is partly because I love to look at and photograph snowy mountains but also because the water taste like crap late in the season when it's running warm and slow.

Good drinking water is one of the finer pleasures in life.

[Tom Monego]

When i used a Speed Graphic, and a Horseman 980 I used to carry it in an army surplus web belt packs, one with the camera and lens, one with holders (roll film holders with the Horseman) & light meter, a Soligar Spot modified for the belt too. My first backpack was a Tamrac Video back pack that worked well with the Linhof Technika IV I now use. Just bought a National Geographic medium back pack, looks better, heavy cotton, thicker than a Domke bag. Cotton BP are nicer to hike with. My tripod is a light weight 45 year old Davis and Sanford with a heavier than normal head (not an A or a B). This tripod has been an old friend, bought it new.

Tom

[Frank Petronio]

the water is running fast and cold, and taste good.

We've been so conditioned not to drink "wild" water that I know a lot of people who have never had the pleasure of drinking from a stream or pond.

Yes you are taking an educated risk and common sense applies. But it is pretty wonderful if you feel brave ;-)

As for New Orleans water? News to me. NYC is supposed to have great drinking water too, always a surprise.

[tgtaylor]

We've been so conditioned not to drink "wild" water that I know a lot of people who have never had the pleasure of drinking from a stream or pond.

Yes you are taking an educated risk and common sense applies. But it is pretty wonderful if you feel brave ;-)

As for New Orleans water? News to me. NYC is supposed to have great drinking water too, always a surprise.

About 10 years ago a study was done on the safety of drinking from the lakes and streams in the high sierra. The results were that the water in the sierra nevada was generally safer than most municipal drinking water. That said I always either filtered my water when traveling in the sierra or, as in the past 7 or 8 years, "purified" it with the "2-step" iodine kit (iodine, and the white pill that neutralizes the iodine taste and re-clears the water.). I switched to the latter because it is far lighter and less bulky than the filter and you should carry it as a back-up anyway.

During my military years we generally drank from rivers and streams without filtering or purifying the water with no ill effect and, historically, people have drank from natural sources without any ill effect.

If you're ever in Yosemite, stop at Fern falls which is billed as the parks smallest waterfall. It's a natural spring right along side the road in the valley near the Ponoho (sp) bridge. Fill your water bottle up there - you'll be glad you did!

[Struan Gray]

Thanks Struan! That makes more sense to me. That would stop the pack from moving. I forget who did it, but someone used the laser pointer test to show that hanging anything from the center column just made movement worse unless the weight also rested on the ground to damp the movement.

Tripod stability is a complex topic, and much depends on the compliance of the platform and leg-attachment points, but in general it's not a good idea to add anything with a well-defined resonance - such as a hanging backpack.

I found when working on peat and wet sand that a second major benefit of this method came from not dancing around the camera so much. With long lenses you can find the tripod leaning over to point elsewhere when you shift your weight. With well-practiced chops I can setup, take the shot, and pack away without moving my feet at all. Useful on steep and rocky ground too.

The waist belt can be tricky to arrange. I usually have a climbing sling and a carabiner around somewhere on the surface, and have used the sling between two tripod legs to support the rucksack base and stop it swinging in towards the centre of the legs. I've seen others do something similar with a bungy strop.

[seabird]

Good drinking water is one of the finer pleasures in life.

Agreed - particularly when its been transformed into single malt by distant relatives in the ancestral highlands... :)

Back on topic: subject to ground conditions, I usually work out of a backpack placed on the ground. One disadvantage of a front loading pack, however, is that they often need to lie on their back for full access to gear (unless you hang them from the tripod etc). Unfortunately this means that whatever dust and dirt they pickup on their back eventually ends up on your back :( A plastic groundsheet is therefore a good idea. Contrast this with a top-loading pack that will usually sit upright and restrict the accumulation of dirt and debris to the bottom of the pack (at the expense of accessibility).

Cheers

[philipmorg]

I used the Photobackpacker system for a while. It was a very nice product, and well designed, but I don't think I could have used it without setting it on the ground.

I replaced it with a home-built wooden case that has backpack straps. That has been more useful for me and I don't worry about setting it on the ground as much as a soft-sided backpack. In addition to having very rapid access to the camera and lenses without unzipping compartments, the case serves as a pretty nice stepladder in some camera orientations.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_PSofTWsAouY/S1nruNTKIaI/AAAAAAAAG_0/yywD7VXl7Zg/s400/R0015347.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_PSofTWsAouY/S1nsHN8tw3I/AAAAAAAAHAA/xysLwB49GBs/s400/R0015350.jpg

See all the pictures of this home-built case here (http://picasaweb.google.com/philipmorg/NewSinarNormaCase?authkey=Gv1sRgCOGq0LnekPD0-wE#).

[sun of sand]

I use adidas ..and soap and water if necessary
ice crevasse? OK

I drink water from wherever I can find it if I need it
Risky?
not so much

I've taken water from a lowlying man made pond next to a farm during a wet period
Water from the local waterfowl refuge -waterfowl- at low water
ditches
Ive drank from a mcdonalds cup I found on the roadside with water from a puddle on the very shoulder of that road
and it was gross
dirty
I think it had an oily sheen, too

I made it out
I'm a man
did use the straw

[Louie Powell]

I often work in places where I would prefer to not set anything on the ground.

My view exactly. I use a backpack (a Lowepro Nature Trekker), but I carry along a folding canvas table to hold the backpack when I am setting up for a shot. Tables are widely available in big-box stores - mine came from Target (and cost $5).

The problem with a backpack is that the is a limit on what you can carry with you. That's not all bad - photography tends to attract those of use who are natural gadget-collectors, and having something to impose some discipline on us helps.

My pack holds my camera, two lenses, a light meter, a collection of holders, a CD case to hold Cokin P filters, a filter holder, and a few miscellaneous accessories.

[Lenny Eiger]

I often work in places where I would prefer to not set anything on the ground. How easy is it to get things in and out while holding the bag in your hands?

I see a lot of different answers here. I use a photobackpacker solution as well with an 8x10. I put the holders where the camera is supposed to go, the lens in boxes above it and put the camera on the tripod where it belongs. It makes no sense to me to mess around with screwing in the tripod screws for every shot and I wouldn't use a quick release with an 8x10.

I only carry 2 lenses, a normal, and a slightly longer for when I want to see across some area I can't cross. I never use a wide angle, don't have a need for it in the woods, and those big long lenses can't see any farther than the fog will allow....

Makes it a lot easier. With a lightweight 4x5 (Ebony, Wista, Canham, etc.), if you leave it on the tripod you can just carry it in your hand, doesn't even need to be over the shoulder... I used to jog along with it to catch up with the family after taking a shot...

Lenny