PDA

View Full Version : Graflex 4x5 Super D RB



spacegoose
13-Apr-2010, 08:49
Wondering if anyone is familiar with this animal?

Is the ability to focus up to the moment of exposure (because of SLR) a great bonus - vs. putting in film and hoping subject didn't move ... ??

Is the reflected image usually bright enough - I guess would depend on mirror/ground glass?

Any tips for using? Would you consider mounting a different lens, with a shutter? I've read 190mm is the widest that will work, and also that the 190mm Ektar is "highly corrected" not sure what that really means... The camera I'm considering has the 190mm Ektar - any opinions on it?

I'm also hoping to get a grafmatic - are these great? The camera has a Graflok back.

Thanks for any info,

sG

Bill_1856
13-Apr-2010, 09:13
Great camera.
There is a significant delay between pressing the shutter relese and when the negative is actually exposed, due to the flopping mirror and large, slow FP shutter.
The GG image is plenty bright.
The 190mm is a superb lens, and is the only one with a semi-automatic aperture. You're going to be pretty much stuck with it, (I have the 10" and 15" Tele-Raptars, but they are too much of a PITA to use.)
The Grafmatic is VERY good for use with the Graflex, since you have a Graflock back.
It is a wonderful camera, but it's big, and heavy, and a little clumky, so don't expect to use it like a Rollei or RB67.

Frank Petronio
13-Apr-2010, 11:26
It's hard to get eyglasses inside the viewing hood so focusing w reading glasses is a challenge.

And while the mirror flop is much longer than a 35mm SLR, it is still 100x faster than checking the ground glass and closing the lens down, loading and pulling the holder, etc.

The 190 Ektar has beautiful out of focus rendering and is plenty sharp and contrasty, Kodak made some of the best lenses in the world when this camera was produced.

They are great cameras, not for everything, but perfect for some.

The only really instant viewing/shooting large format type set up is something like a Gowlandlex twin lens reflex.

spacegoose
13-Apr-2010, 11:56
Thanks all for the info - was also curious about the unusual shutter speed setting based on the high/low tension and a letter settings - (pretty weird :)

more info here:

http://www.seawood.com/classic-camera-corner/002-super-d-graflex/using-rb-super-d-graflex.html

Anyone know if a Fujinon A 300mm might work on this machine? It is quite a compact 300mm lens.

I understand the lens choice is very limited due perhaps that most interfere with the mirror? Is this why the 190mm is "highly corrected" so that it fits?

Simon Benton
13-Apr-2010, 12:22
Great cameras. They will work with other barrel lenses around 8 inch FL but you will need the correct lens board and you will not have the auto diaphragm. You can also build a "top hat" box which will let you use longer lenses - I am in the midst of building one now.

Dan Fromm
13-Apr-2010, 13:14
Thanks all for the info - was also curious about the unusual shutter speed setting based on the high/low tension and a letter settings - (pretty weird :)

<snip>

I understand the lens choice is very limited due perhaps that most interfere with the mirror? Is this why the 190mm is "highly corrected" so that it fits?

Visit www.graflex.org

The Graphic and Graflex shutter is a continuous strip of fabric with slits. The letters on the speed plate correspond to slit widths, the tensions to slit average velocity. More or less the simplest possible focal plane shutter.

The 190 is highly corrected to make it a good lens, not to make it clear the mirror.

As you've been told, lenses longer than the standard issue can be used with a "top hat" lens board.

A lens in shutter can be hung in front of a Graflex, but the camera has no provision for working with a front shutter. The sequence of operation is to be: lower mirror, open front shutter, focus and compose, close front shutter, raise mirror and fire focal plane shutter on "T" (these steps can be separated), fire front shutter, close focal plane shutter, lower mirror. Go for it!

Miguel Coquis
15-Apr-2010, 11:29
Thanks all for the info - was also curious about the unusual shutter speed setting based on the high/low tension and a letter settings - (pretty weird :)

more info here:

http://www.seawood.com/classic-camera-corner/002-super-d-graflex/using-rb-super-d-graflex.html

Anyone know if a Fujinon A 300mm might work on this machine? It is quite a compact 300mm lens.

I understand the lens choice is very limited due perhaps that most interfere with the mirror? Is this why the 190mm is "highly corrected" so that it fits?

check:
Show us your home made camera...(page 14),
Is a really amazing camera, it is possible to have infinity focus with a 250 mm
I have already try the aero ektar with an special lensboard and is good for portrait
drop me a note if you need more info
Miguel
PS the RB Auto Graflex is very fast for exposure once all the mechanics are clean and lubricated, the rest is your "maitriseé of the camera...!

Michael Roberts
15-Apr-2010, 12:00
Question: if the goals are to use for (possibly hand-held) portraiture and to reduce the time delay between composing, focusing, and releasing the shutter to capture fleeting expressions, why not eliminate the mirror delay completely by using the wire sports viewer on a Crown Graphic?

Just asking....

Jay DeFehr
15-Apr-2010, 15:30
Michael,

When shooting at the wide apertures required for hand held work, dof is very shallow, and focus is critical. The wire frame sports finders on the press cameras are fine if one is using small apertures and blasting one's subjects with flash bulbs, ala Weegeee, but not really useful for moderate to wide apertures at close subject distances.

Ivan J. Eberle
15-Apr-2010, 17:16
I just buzzed through a Grafmatics-worth of Ektar on some pupping harbor seal seascapes with a wireframe for the heads-up moment, also using my Kalart rangefinder to prefocus. Essentially instantaneous exposures, faster than any SLR.

One solution to DOF wide open is a laser pointer-retrofitted Kalart Focuspot-- works in broad daylight. (I've nearly got mine completed.)

Bill_1856
15-Apr-2010, 17:49
Michael,

When shooting at the wide apertures required for hand held work, dof is very shallow, and focus is critical. The wire frame sports finders on the press cameras are fine if one is using small apertures and blasting one's subjects with flash bulbs, ala Weegeee, but not really useful for moderate to wide apertures at close subject distances.

I disagree.

Ivan J. Eberle
15-Apr-2010, 17:59
Wire finders are for framing with both eyes open, not focusing. Original "action finder".

The Graflex RBs were banned from Navy aircraft carrier decks, I'd read somewhere, because they didn't allow for a head's up view when landings went awry.

Prefocusing is still necessary, and a finely-tuned Kalart RF makes for extremely precise focus. I'd argue it can be much more precise to use a laser mounted in a Kalart than anything else in LF besides a loupe on the GG (but aligning the two laser dots into one superimposed one regime is an order of magnitude faster). This ability to handhold, prefocus and then achieve precise focus by moving the camera position in or out slightly probably has to be seen to be appreciated for how marvelous it really is. Weegie might still be using this rather than a DSLR were he still around.

Mark Sampson
16-Apr-2010, 07:14
I wouldn't worry about the time delay when shooting with a Graflex. Steiglitz, Strand, Weston, Lange, Cunningham, and countless other photographers made great portraits with Graflexes. The real issues are size/weight, the inability to use flash, and the limited lens focal lengths available. None of which should deter you from making good photographs and having fun.

Robert Hughes
16-Apr-2010, 10:09
The real issues are... the inability to use flash...
What flash can't you use? I've got a Strobonar for my Busch press camera (pretty much same as a Graflex), it works just fine except the battery terminals are rotted out, so I shoot with AC power.

Jay DeFehr
16-Apr-2010, 10:12
Bill,

ok.....

Ivan,

When shooting portraits, which eye do you blind by superimposing lasers on it; the near eye, or the far one?

Bill_1856
16-Apr-2010, 11:49
I've been using a 4x5 SDRB Graflex since the 1950s, and at the risk of sounding like a grump, I'd like to suggest that it's pretty much outdated and a PITA to use. Consider a Mamiya RB67 -- they're cheaper and better for actual photography.

Sevo
16-Apr-2010, 12:00
I've been using a 4x5 SDRB Graflex since the 1950s, and at the risk of sounding like a grump, I'd like to suggest that it's pretty much outdated and a PITA to use. Consider a Mamiya RB67 -- they're cheaper and better for actual photography.

Well, I've been using a RB67 since the late seventies, and at the risk of sounding like a grump, I'd like to suggest that it's pretty much outdated and a PITA to use. Consider a RZ67 - used, they're just as cheap and better for actual photography. :rolleyes:

More seriously, of course modern large medium format reflexes will do better than large format reflexes for most applications LF SLRs originally were conceived. But they still don't have the same format, and where you need the size with ground glass control right up to the shot, a LF SLR or TLR is the only way to do it...

spacegoose
17-Apr-2010, 08:44
Visit www.graflex.org


A lens in shutter can be hung in front of a Graflex, but the camera has no provision for working with a front shutter. The sequence of operation is to be: lower mirror, open front shutter, focus and compose, close front shutter, raise mirror and fire focal plane shutter on "T" (these steps can be separated), fire front shutter, close focal plane shutter, lower mirror. Go for it!

I suppose that would take away from the whole point of it being an SLR.

I saw someone (http://www.flickr.com/photos/egould/4463028740/) on Flickr had S.K. Grimes mount a 6 1/2" Cooke f/2.5 (165mm) Anastigmat lens from a Graflex Series C (on a Series D) - other than being faster and wider than the normal Series D lens, and having no auto-diaphragm, is the Cooke superior to the 190mm Ektar? The same guy on Flickr also has a Dallmeyer Pentac 2.9 on a Graflex (not sure which model Graflex), which seems very nice too for portraits (http://www.flickr.com/photos/egould/sets/72157610563119437/) (my main interest). How does the Pentac fit in the Ektar/Cooke mix?

Thanks,
sG

Dan Fromm
17-Apr-2010, 11:54
SG, I'm sort of with you. Sort of.

I built my little Baby Bertha with provision for a front shutter. If I can ever make the thing steady enough to use, I expect I'll find the front shutter somewhat convenient. Yes, shooting with the front shutter will be bit of a pain but the film holder is detached from the SLR module only for loading. So using the Bertha instead of my tandem Graphic will save me the trouble of inserting the film holder after focusing, composing, and setting the front shutter. Raising the mirror and opening the back shutter is easy and relatively fast.

I have no experience with any of the lenses you've asked about. Based on common report, the Ektar is to be the best of the lot and has auto diaphragm too. But common report on Pentacs reflects mainly ex-Air Ministry 8 inchers. The VM says they're very variable, often poor, but that Pentacs made by Dallmeyer for the civilian market are good lenses that are usable even wide open. Eric Beltrando's ray tracing calculations for the Pentac suggest that is isn't wonderful.

Ivan J. Eberle
17-Apr-2010, 14:57
Jay DeFehr, many of WeeGee's subjects were deceased, kind of hard to blind a dead man.
If I was shooting alive-person's portraits with my LED laser-assisted Kalart RF, it would be a simple enough matter to slightly defocus the laser beam to get a bigger spot. (I'm dubious that anyone is going to be blinded by a <5W red LED laser beam originally sold as a cat play toy, however).

Jay DeFehr
17-Apr-2010, 17:32
Ivan,

I was joking. No one ever gets my jokes! Still, the Focus spot method wouldn't work for me. In my experience with my equipment, dof is very shallow, and focus is critical down to the instant of exposure. I wouldn't want to always place the center of interest of my photos in the center of the frame, where the spots converge, and I wouldn't want to focus, shift-for-composition, expose, either. If your method works for you, I'm impressed, but it wouldn't work for me.