8x10 De-vere with Ilford multigrade head - large prints - more light needed...

[lukeforeman]

Hi,

Would realy appreciate some advice from you guys.. I'm using a 8x10 De-vere enlarger with a drop table.. the head has been extended out on blocks to allow me to do the prints I need - 42"x55".

I'm printing from 5x4 and 10x8 negs.. I have a major problem with not enough light and the exposures when using 5x4 are around 7 minutes for the main exposure.. The paper does not fog with all the safe light out but I'm printing a one stop from closed down which is not ideal. Also to work my images, ie burning in is impossible as looking at 14 minutes for x2 stop burn in..

The Ilford head has x4 bulbs and have been told that If put in brighter bulbs then it will overheat and melt the metal used..

I basically need to increase my light output by x2 stops to be able to work properly.. Have thought of using a colour head instead as apparently it put out more light, around 30% more power but dont feel that that is enough..

As far as i see it I either need to modify the ilford multigrade 8x10 or build a different light source like Ansel Adams did using tungsten bulbs or car head lights.. The light sorce need to be diffused for the way my negs are, condensor heads would be too contrasty and big probs with dust etc..

Would realy appreciate help on this..

Cheers,
Luke :confused:

[Tony Lakin]

Hi,

Would realy appreciate some advice from you guys.. I'm using a 8x10 De-vere enlarger with a drop table.. the head has been extended out on blocks to allow me to do the prints I need - 42"x55".

I'm printing from 5x4 and 10x8 negs.. I have a major problem with not enough light and the exposures when using 5x4 are around 7 minutes for the main exposure.. The paper does not fog with all the safe light out but I'm printing a one stop from closed down which is not ideal. Also to work my images, ie burning in is impossible as looking at 14 minutes for x2 stop burn in..

The Ilford head has x4 bulbs and have been told that If put in brighter bulbs then it will overheat and melt the metal used..

I basically need to increase my light output by x2 stops to be able to work properly.. Have thought of using a colour head instead as apparently it put out more light, around 30% more power but dont feel that that is enough..

As far as i see it I either need to modify the ilford multigrade 8x10 or build a different light source like Ansel Adams did using tungsten bulbs or car head lights.. The light sorce need to be diffused for the way my negs are, condensor heads would be too contrasty and big probs with dust etc..

Would realy appreciate help on this..

Cheers,
Luke :confused:

Hi Luke
Can we have some more info please
Which model De Vere do you have and which Ilford multigrade head
What enlarging lens are you using
How much filtration are you using (try a test print without filtration to see what exposure time you get, no need to use a full sheet of paper)
What is mean't by "I'm printing a one stop from closed down", what f stop are you printing at, you should be printing at one or two stops from wide open.

Regards

[ic-racer]

What Tony said.

Also, do you have a 'light multiplier' box for 4x5? The light output when enlarging a 4x5 negative with the 10x10 diffuser is like doing a 84" x 110" print from an 8x10 negative. So, its going to be dim doing it that way.

I know in the Durst system that 4x5 multiplier box gets you almost 2 extra stops.

[lukeforeman]

Hi Luke
Can we have some more info please
Which model De Vere do you have and which Ilford multigrade head
What enlarging lens are you using
How much filtration are you using (try a test print without filtration to see what exposure time you get, no need to use a full sheet of paper)
What is mean't by "I'm printing a one stop from closed down", what f stop are you printing at, you should be printing at one or two stops from wide open.

Regards

Hi Tony,

Was printing yesterday all day. The general exposure was 25 minutes at F8.5 using grade 3 on the ilford multigrade system. I'm using a ilford multigrade 500LE head and the prints are 38x45, with a 150mm rodinstock lens. using a 135mm rodinstock allows me to print bigger on 5x4 negs with the 8x10 enlarger head on Devere 5108 shassie but have to stop down 3 stops not to get fall off on the edges.

Really need to be down to max 5 mins exposure at F11.. the iflord 500LE has x4 300W Bulbs and everyone I've spoken to say that if you put higher Watt bulbs the cooling system cant handle it and melts the metal.. Feel that Would need to modifiey some how this head to get more power out of it. x3 stops more light :(.. Any idears....

Maybe for 5x4 I should get a 5x4 ilford head modify to fit the 8x10 devere shassie?? I now the 5x4 has a box for 5x4 but only runs x2 300 W bulbs, maybe could modify that???

Plse advise...

B.Regards,
Luke

[lukeforeman]

What Tony said.

Also, do you have a 'light multiplier' box for 4x5? The light output when enlarging a 4x5 negative with the 10x10 diffuser is like doing a 84" x 110" print from an 8x10 negative. So, its going to be dim doing it that way.

I know in the Durst system that 4x5 multiplier box gets you almost 2 extra stops.


Hi,

Thanks for that advice. Do you feel the Durst 4x5 head would give more power out put than the ilford Mulitgrade 5x4 head (ilfospeed Multigrade 500) I have used the iford 5x4 head on my old de-vere shassie and it runs x3 300W bulbs into the 5x4 box. The 8x10 ilford 500LE head i'm using on my De-vere 8x10 shassie on a drop table runs x4 300W bulbs and figures would put out more power than a 5x4 head for negs 5x4.

I could convert a 5x4 ilford head (ilfospeed multigrade 500) to fit the 8x10 shassie. Do you think it would give me more power.. As mentioned to Tony the times I'm dealing with for a print are 25 minutes main exposure, which makes it very differcult to burn in. Using a 150mm rodinstock lens at F8.5. Printing from a 5x4 neg on 8x10 multigrade head and the print size is 38x45 approx on grade 3 multigrade filter.. Most of the prints need split grade printing, so would prefer to use multigrade filter and all paper stock is Ilford multigrade warm tone fiber paper..

Do the Dursts put out more power than the multigrade ilford heads?

Only other option is to make a head which is a bit of a nightmare, so would perfer to boost the heads available.. De-vere said that if you put higher watt bulbs in the ilford heads it melts the metal.. Do you know anyone who had managed to convert them to higher watt bulbs, without meltage??

Appreciate your help on this...

Best Regards,
Luke

[John Bowen]

....More Light Needed.....

Why don't you try what ALWAYS worked for Captain Kirk....just have Scotty add some dilithium crystals.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

On a serious note, Durst/Jensen Optical make this little baby for enlarging on Azo http://www.durst-pro-usa.com/azo.html

Best wishes on solving your problem.

[ic-racer]

I don't know much about the Ilford 500 system, but perhaps the 4x5 mixing chamber (light multiiplier) from your 4x5 Ilford head will fit in the 8x10 Ilford head. In that case you will be set.

Otherwise finding the 4x5 light multiplier for the 8x10 head may be a problem.

If you are going to go with a different head, consider a condenser head. They will be brighter watt-per-watt than a diffusion head.

Using the relatively inexpensive and plentiful Omega DV 4x5 condenser head with a 250W bulb will probably get you reasonable printing times. I think Bob Carnie makes his big 4x5 enlargements this way.

[Arthur Nichols]

I have printed up to about 28 x 36 (approx) from both 5 x 7 and 8 x 10 negatives. My times are usually less than one minute. I grafted a 2000W Devere Dichro Color head onto a Fotar chasis and use 180mm and 240mm lenses. You could consider to try to put your hands on a higher wattage color head. The other suggestions are valid. Try to match the mixing box to the size of the negative and no don't put bulbs in with a higher wattage. You will ruin your light source. Good enlarger alignment will allow printing at wider F stops.

[jeroldharter]

What paper are you using? Paper speeds vary a lot. Kentmere Fineprint is the fastest that I have used, often 2 stops faster than others. Given the size of your prints, you might be married to one paper and I don't know if Kentmere is available that big but consider a faster paper if all else fails. Might save you hours of exposure time if you make many of those prints.

Don't know the ilford head, but perhaps the light would be brighter with no filtration and then use an under the lens grade 3 filter to see if that buys a stop.

[lukeforeman]

I have printed up to about 28 x 36 (approx) from both 5 x 7 and 8 x 10 negatives. My times are usually less than one minute. I grafted a 2000W Devere Dichro Color head onto a Fotar chasis and use 180mm and 240mm lenses. You could consider to try to put your hands on a higher wattage color head. The other suggestions are valid. Try to match the mixing box to the size of the negative and no don't put bulbs in with a higher wattage. You will ruin your light source. Good enlarger alignment will allow printing at wider F stops.


Thanks for that.. Much appreciated advice.. Luke

[lukeforeman]

Thanks for that.. Much appreciated advice.. Luke

Do you find that using a colour head is hard to match the grade filters of a multigrade head?? Have not printed B&W on a colour head before and have been a bit concerned in getting the most out of the B&W print using a colour head than predetermined multi grade filters on a digital box.. Your advice much appreciated..m Luke

[lukeforeman]

Thanks everyone for your time on this.. Feel that the cheapest option is to find a high watt colour head in the meantime.. 8x10 with a reducing box to 5x4..

Does printing on a colour head in anyway hinder your multi grade print quality rather than using a B&W multi grade head with preset filter grades. Done a bit of colour printing and just wondering if pos to get the exact filter colours on a colour head.. Any charts available to dial in the B&W multi grade filters on a colour head??

Best Regards,
Luke

[Peter De Smidt]

Depending on the filters, you might get less maximum contrast with a Dichro head than with the filters. The filters do fade, especially the magenta ones. Standard contrast/dichro settings charts are only rough guides. It is a very good idea to get a step tablet and test for yourself. Paul Butzi has a great article on this at http://www.butzi.net/articles/vcce.htm

[ic-racer]

Any charts available to dial in the B&W multi grade filters on a colour head??

Best Regards,
Luke

Yes, there is a very good one included with Ilford MG paper. Also available on their website.

I have tested their chart against multiple color enlargers and against a Ilford MG filter set. I have also constructed my own charts. I can say the filtration values they give for Omega and Durst heads are very good.