A Scanner for 5x7, WP and 8x10 films?

[Hugo Zhang]

My knowledge and experience of scanning is limited to put a print face down on basic Epson (3490?) scanner with auto mode and press the button like a copying machine. I am not happy with the results and I also need to have a scanner which can scan my 57, whole plate and 8x10 negatives since I don't have a darkroom and have to use facilities of a nearby community college for prinnting for a few hours each week when the school is open.

I have spent some time reading people's experiece on film scanning and I am still confused. My needs are simple:

1. I want to be able to scan my films for web use only. I need decent but not great quality. I will not do digital printing.

2. I don't want to spend lots of time on scanning or learning how to scan. So no wet mounting or other fancy stuff as they take too much time.

3. No Newton rings and a scanner which can handle 5x7, whole plate and 8x10 negatives.

Base on what I read, it seems Epson 4990 is a good choice. I have read that people use hair spray on the glass surface before put the film down to avoid Newton ring. Is this true? Do I have to get holders for each size of my films?

Any suggesttion and ideas are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

[douglas gove]

My knowledge and experience of scanning is limited to put a print face down on basic Epson (3490?) scanner with auto mode and press the button like a copying machine. I am not happy with the results and I also need to have a scanner which can scan my 57, whole plate and 8x10 negatives since I don't have a darkroom and have to use facilities of a nearby community college for prinnting for a few hours each week when the school is open.

I have spent some time reading people's experiece on film scanning and I am still confused. My needs are simple:

1. I want to be able to scan my films for web use only. I need decent but great quality. I will not do digital printing.

2. I don't want to spend lots of time on scanning or learning how to scan. So no wet mounting or other fancy stuff as they take too much time.

3. No Newton rings and a scanner which can handle 5x7, whole plate and 8x10 negatives.

Base on what I read, it seems Epson 4990 is a good choice. I have read that people use hair spray on the glass surface before put the film down to avoid Newton ring. Is this true? Do I have to get holders for each size of my films?

Any suggesttion and ideas are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

hugo...i use a fine misting of hair spray on contrast masks that are sandwiched with transparency for ciba printing...works wonderful...hair spray on scanner glass?...don't know about that doug

[memorris]

You may want to look at the Epson 700 and 750. I se the 750 and have been quite pleased with the results. HAving Silverfast AI makes a big difference, I have found the Epson s/w to be wholly unsatisfactory. However, if you want great results you will need to go beyond basic use, not necessarily to wet mounting but more than simple turn it on and do a scan. My needs are very similar to yours and I have learned enough to get the quality desired from the scans. but when I need a scan for a print to sell, I send it to a lab to be scanned.

[Alex Wei]

Microtek I90 is also a good choice. What I do is to put the negative emulsion side against glass, tape down the corners, no newton ring, just remember to flip it in PS after scan. Use low resolution like 600 dpi, that will give you a file more than good enough for web.

[Hugo Zhang]

Alex,

I don't have PS(photoshop?) or know how to use it. Do I need one? How much is Microtek I90? You just tape any size of film directly on the scanner's glass?

[BradS]

I have been using an Epson V700 that I found in one of the labs here at work to scan 8x10 sheets (this gets lots of strange looks from the lab rats). My needs for scanned negs are, like yours, pretty basic. I only scan negatives to satisfy my curiosity about the negative itself. I can't wait to see how I did. I sometimes go several months between darkroom sessions. I do not make prints from scans and I really don't even care too much to post on the web anymore....

I just lay the negative right on the glass and scan away. Not great but....good enough for flickr for example. The scans are actually a little bit fuzzy. I think it would be better if I were somehow able to raise the neg away from the glass a bit....still thinking about that. Maybethe scanner comes with film holders that I've not found. Anyway, this quickie scan suffices until I can make a real print in the darkroom....

[Scott Davis]

Hugo-

Get the Epson V750. It comes with the appropriate negative/transparency carriers for everything smaller than 4x5, and the full-area mask for 5x7-8x10. For the bigger transparencies, the scanner will auto-focus on the glass instead of 2-3 mm above like with the carriers. the V750 comes with SilverFast AI (I believe - I know you can order it that way as a kit), which will serve as a scanner driver by itself, but is more useful as a plug-in for Photoshop (which might also come bundled with the scanner, at least the Photoshop Elements version).

[Frank Petronio]

If you're not happy with the results and not using Photoshop there is a bit of a disconnect here. If you aren't using Photoshop to edit post scanning then you'll probably never get good results.

At the level you want, scanning contact prints on a consumer scanner and editing with the simple consumer software is probably your easiest and most expedient solution.

[cdholden]

<snip>
I just lay the negative right on the glass and scan away. Not great but....good enough for flickr for example. The scans are actually a little bit fuzzy.
<snip>

Brad,
A few shots of bourbon should bring that back into focus.
Chris

[cdholden]

Alex,

I don't have PS(photoshop?) or know how to use it.

Hugo,
If the cost of Photoshop is a show stopper, check out The GIMP.
It's an open open source application that does a lot of the same things that Photoshop does.
Being open source, it has its limitations. It doesn't have the well paid development team adding features or support for it, but it runs on several operating systems and is available to download for the wee fee of free.
http://www.gimp.org/

Chris

[sanking]

If you're not happy with the results and not using Photoshop there is a bit of a disconnect here. If you aren't using Photoshop to edit post scanning then you'll probably never get good results.

At the level you want, scanning contact prints on a consumer scanner and editing with the simple consumer software is probably your easiest and most expedient solution.

That pretty much says it all.

Sometimes you want to lovingly grab someone in your two hands, look them in the eye, and ask, "Are you really in there?"

Sandy King

[Hugo Zhang]

Frank and Sandy,

I am basically a computer illiterate and only use computer to surf the net. I have heard of PS as a photo editing software, but have zero experience of it. Maybe I will sign on for a class at my community college next year.

Thanks for the advice.

Hugo

[sanking]

Frank and Sandy,

I am basically a computer illiterate and only use computer to surf the net. I have heard of PS as a photo editing software, but have zero experience of it. Maybe I will sign on for a class at my community college next year.

Thanks for the advice.

Hugo

Hugo,

There are some excellent on-line tutorials for Photoshop.

My suggestion would be to purchase a copy of one of the older versions of PS, say CS, and try it out. I am currently using CS3, and plan to buy CS5 when it comes out, but CS is a pretty powerful program and will probably do all you need to learn the program, without setting you back an arm and a leg. Even an older version like PS 6 or 7 might be useful for learning and would not cost very much.


Sandy King

[Frank Petronio]

Yes Hugo, I do not mean you any slight, you are obviously an excellent photographer, but there is no such thing as an 'automatic" high quality scanning solution without digging in an learning the basics. Photoshop is an essential tool for digital media -- you might be able to get by with GIMP or Photoshop Elements or iPhoto or Scanning software -- but sooner or later you will run into a dead end with the consumer/amateur applications. If you care about quality -- and you must if you are considering purchasing a $700 scanner when Best Buy has plenty of $100 scanners -- it is only logical to include Photoshop as part of the work flow.

Otherwise you get just what you're complaining about -- muddy amateur quality scans -- what most people will settle for but not what you'd expect from a serious large format photographer.

[Alex Wei]

Alex,

I don't have PS(photoshop?) or know how to use it. Do I need one? How much is Microtek I90? You just tape any size of film directly on the scanner's glass?

Hugo, you do need some sort of photo editing software to deal with the scanned image. The price is about 300 to 400, I think. Yep, I just tape the film directly on the glass, for 4X5, it has holders. Anything larger, I just tape it. BTW, the scanner is Microtek i900.

[evan clarke]

Hugo, you might be surprised what a nice representation of your prints you can make with a digital camera. You could spend all that scanning time in the darkroom or behind the camera!!..Evan Clarke

[David de Gruyl]

Hugo, you might be surprised what a nice representation of your prints you can make with a digital camera. You could spend all that scanning time in the darkroom or behind the camera!!..Evan Clarke

The same is true of scanning prints on autopilot (assuming they are 8x10). And then all you need is a <$100 scanner.

Photographing prints is not trivial: you need to make sure the picture is exactly perpendicular to the camera, and that the lighting is not causing a glare. (it is not difficult, but for me it takes longer than scanning a print).

Either way, you have to made adjustments (contrast, color balance, exposure, image size, cropping).

[sanking]

The same is true of scanning prints on autopilot (assuming they are 8x10). And then all you need is a <$100 scanner.

Photographing prints is not trivial: you need to make sure the picture is exactly perpendicular to the camera, and that the lighting is not causing a glare. (it is not difficult, but for me it takes longer than scanning a print).

Either way, you have to made adjustments (contrast, color balance, exposure, image size, cropping).

Same for me. I find it a lot faster to scan a print and make the adjustment than to use a digital camera. Plus, you can easily capture all of the detail in the print with a scan, with a digital camera it depends . . .

The only problem is that if you make large prints you need a large scanner.

Sandy King

[Mike Anderson]

Frank and Sandy,

I am basically a computer illiterate and only use computer to surf the net. I have heard of PS as a photo editing software, but have zero experience of it. Maybe I will sign on for a class at my community college next year.


If you do the community college route (I did and recommend it) you can get a big discount on Adobe software with student ID. Sometimes the school bookstore will have it even cheaper than the normal student price. Adobe's "educational" versions are really the same as the full priced software, as far as I can tell.

...Mike

[David de Gruyl]

If you do the community college route (I did and recommend it) you can get a big discount on Adobe software with student ID. Sometimes the school bookstore will have it even cheaper than the normal student price. Adobe's "educational" versions are really the same as the full priced software, as far as I can tell.

...Mike

exactly the same as the full version at less than 1/2 the price.

[8x10 user]

If you shop around you might be able to get a good price on an Eversmart Pro II or similar model. The extra D-Max might be useful.

[climbabout]

Just an observation - I have been following this thread as I am just learning scanning on my own.
I shoot mostly 8x10 B&W. It's becoming clear to me that scanning requires a learning curve not unlike traditional printing. You can't expect to make a fine print accident. Why expect to make a good scan by accident? If it were that easy there would be no professional labs and no professional photographers.
Tim

[jp]

I would suggest the 700/750 from epson. I use one for 35mm,6x6,4x5,8x10 negatives.

Photoshop Elements lacks a curves control. I installed gimp instead. I have photoshop 7 on my old computer, and cs2 on a computer at work. Gimp is fine for the curves adjustments, dust removal, resizing, especially since it's free. Scanning and fixing images is not a task requiring the latest and greatest photoshop version. It's really late 1990's tech.

If there is an adult ed or community college class for photoshop, take it if you are new to the software. If you can get a student version of photoshop for cheap, it would be worth it along with the training. Many of us have been using photoshop for so long, we don't remember what it was like to first learn it, so a class might be a good idea.

[8x10 user]

They also got those "classroom in a book" things from adobe.