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Allen in Montreal
28-Mar-2010, 13:08
A while back I was looking for an 8x10 film washer, space is tight and I opted to try to wash in my print washer. I can do up to 6 sheets at a time using this setup.

Anyone else working like this, any thoughts for or against?

Brian Ellis
28-Mar-2010, 13:45
I had a Zone VI 11x14 print washer in which I was able to wash about 15 8x10 b&w negatives at a time. Seemed to work well, at least the negatives are still around and in good shape.

John Bowen
28-Mar-2010, 15:16
I'm with Brian, except I use a Zone VI 16x20 washer and can wash 30 8x10 negatives at a time.

Ginette
28-Mar-2010, 17:43
I'm curious about if someone try to extend the Gravity Works 4x5 Film Basket design to the 8x10 film.
I'm pretty fluent working with plexiglas and think about making a multi-format film washer basket: 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10.
This kind of basket can be easy to fit in many existing washing devices like basket type Versalab or Paterson or plexiglas print washer removing the separators.

PS. Allen, if a Zone VI 16x20 print washer interest you, you have one actually available at Rivičre-du-Loup.

David de Gruyl
29-Mar-2010, 05:37
I use a print washer for 8x10 film, also. It seemed like the logical decision.

Allen in Montreal
29-Mar-2010, 08:31
I guess my concern is the volume of water that crosses the emulsion is much less than in my Gravity Works which I use for 35,120,4x5 and 5x7 in hangers.

I have bumped up the wash time to compensate for the reduced water flow, I guess I need to do some test HT 2 tests to be certain of my wash times.

Jan Pedersen
29-Mar-2010, 08:40
I use one of Alistair Inglis dedicated film washers for 8x10. The film washer have jets that move the water on each side of the film but still requires very little water pressure and flow. Very happy with this set-up which also makes a tiny footprint on the counter top. Alistair makes them for in and out of sink.

Michael Kadillak
29-Mar-2010, 14:41
I use one of Alistair Inglis dedicated film washers for 8x10. The film washer have jets that move the water on each side of the film but still requires very little water pressure and flow. Very happy with this set-up which also makes a tiny footprint on the counter top. Alistair makes them for in and out of sink.

Could not agree with you more Jan. I do the same thing with Alistairs dedicated sheet film washers as I have acquired these for 4x5, 5x7, 8x10 and 11x14 and 8x20. They are fabulous.

The problem with using prints washers is that because the sheet film is not kept rigidly in place there is still a risk that movement of the film in its fragile wet condition could result in scratches to the emulsion. Been there and done that - but not any longer. With Alistairs washers the film is held in place properly spaced for optimal washing with a minimum of water used.

ic-racer
29-Mar-2010, 15:01
The problem with using prints washers is that because the sheet film is not kept rigidly in place there is still a risk that movement of the film in its fragile wet condition could result in scratches to the emulsion.

I share that concern and I never thought of using a print washer because of risk of emulsion damage. I have been washing all my sheet film in the Jobo drum, then doing a short final wash in a water tray for a few seconds, just to make sure the back is clear, just prior to PhotoFo and drying.

My sequence for in-drum sheet film washing is:

Fix
one-min water wash
one-min permawash
one-min water wash
two-min water wash
three-min water wash
then out of tank, splash in a water tray to see if the water discolors, then photo flo and dry.

Allen in Montreal
29-Mar-2010, 15:10
There is no risk of damage with my set up in side my 11x14 print washer, the film is in hangers and they don't rack and touch the edges. Each chamber is rather wide and the water flows in the same zig zag path as the print washer is designed, there are just half the chambers with this arrangement.
But the lack of the "cross jet" type agitation during wash (or the total drain agitation in my gravity works) is the concern.

I guess I should find room for one of Alistair's.

IC, how many times do you fill and drain the jobo tank?
Have you ever HT2 tested?

My 5x7 are washed in the gravity works with the basket removed and the hangers fit on the long side.

Michael Kadillak
29-Mar-2010, 16:33
There is no risk of damage with my set up in side my 11x14 print washer, the film is in hangers and they don't rack and touch the edges. Each chamber is rather wide and the water flows in the same zig zag path as the print washer is designed, there are just half the chambers with this arrangement.
But the lack of the "cross jet" type agitation during wash (or the total drain agitation in my gravity works) is the concern.

I guess I should find room for one of Alistair's.

IC, how many times do you fill and drain the jobo tank?
Have you ever HT2 tested?

My 5x7 are washed in the gravity works with the basket removed and the hangers fit on the long side.

While hangers do in fact keep the film from dangerous contact my feeling is that the hangers by the very nature of how they are constructed are obstructions to the washing process. As a result I feel that you need more water velocity and water to overcome these issues over the condition where the hanger were not there.

We all have a tendency to get cheap and cut corners when it comes to washing sheet film. I know guys that use print siphon washers to wash sheet film and tell me that this is not a problem. Others use their print washers for the task. There is a better way.

Alistairs washers are marvelously engineered and the 8x10 six sheet dedicated sheet film washer is small, light (as they are all) and does the job perfectly. You cannot believe how little water pressure it takes to drive streams of water across the film surface and wash the film.They are great and Alistair is an artisan with acrylic and one of us.

Cheers!

ic-racer
29-Mar-2010, 18:04
[QUOTE=Allen in Montreal;574525]

IC, how many times do you fill and drain the jobo tank?
Have you ever HT2 tested?
[QUOTE]


If you consider the permawash to be voodoo and just another wash, then it is 5 changes total after the fixer. The 'main' wash cycle at the end is just 3 changes. One min->dump, two min->dump, then 3 min and final dump. I put more water than the 'process' volume. Usually around 500cc for the 3010 drum and 500cc for two 2800 long drum segments.

I'll admit it has been almost 10 years since testing (when I first got my Jobo in 2001). But I have been using permawash and basically the same wash cycle for about 25 years (maybe more).

Brian Ellis
29-Mar-2010, 19:50
Could not agree with you more Jan. I do the same thing with Alistairs dedicated sheet film washers as I have acquired these for 4x5, 5x7, 8x10 and 11x14 and 8x20. They are fabulous.

The problem with using prints washers is that because the sheet film is not kept rigidly in place there is still a risk that movement of the film in its fragile wet condition could result in scratches to the emulsion. Been there and done that - but not any longer. With Alistairs washers the film is held in place properly spaced for optimal washing with a minimum of water used.

I've washed hundreds of sheets of 8x10 film in the Zone VI print washer. Never had a scratch. Maybe some other print washers cause the film to move around more than the Zone VI does.

shuber1
1-Apr-2010, 18:36
Hi Allen, I have been using Alistair Inglis' print washers and his 8 by 10 inch film washer- love them! His negative washer is very small and does not take up much room- the print washer is very large.All the best, Susan www.susanhuber.com

Gary L. Quay
2-Apr-2010, 01:58
The first and last time I tried to wash 8x10 negatives in my Nova Print Washer, I damaged them trying to remove them.

--Gary

Darryl Baird
2-Apr-2010, 05:07
I drop this into a utility/laundry sink and it works fine for up to 8-10 sheets.

Can't complain about the cost (or smell). ;)

Dirk Rösler
2-Apr-2010, 05:54
I wash in the Jobo drum after processing with three changes of about 500ml of water, 4/5/6 minutes. Inspired by the Ilford method for inversion tanks.

Robert Hughes
2-Apr-2010, 08:38
I drop this into a utility/laundry sink and it works fine for up to 8-10 sheets.
Great photo. Two of my photo trays started life as kitty litter trays! :)

Jason Greenberg Motamedi
2-Apr-2010, 08:42
I wash my 8x10s in an 11x14 Versalab. It works just fine, although the washer is a bit too big for 5x7s, and I usually ended up soaking myself while fishing for that run away negative.

Andrew O'Neill
2-Apr-2010, 08:45
I use 8x10 film hangers that I purchased from a couple of LF members here. Once the film is fixed, I rinse them quickly in a tray, slip them into the hangers, soak in HCA in plexi boxes that I slapped together, then wash. I can wash ten at a time.
Luckily film is on a plastic base, so washing isn't as picky as fibre prints. Before I had the hangers, I used the rinse, soak, dump method with a bath in HCA after the first rinse in trays. Tedious, but very effective.