Voigtlander Braunschweig 21cm Heliar f 1 : 4,5

[eduardtoader]

I purchased this lens 10 months ago. The Compound shutter was blocked and I send it to repair. Now I still have two problems:

1 - the shutter speed is very innacurate ( 1/30 sec = 1/60 sec - It seems to shoot more quickly than normal speed - but I´ve not test it because I don´t know how). The repair man told me that the compund shutter use a little compressed air cylinder with a piston that control the shutter blades blabla. In time the cylinder loose the air compression, so the piston go more fast.

2 - the front element is blocked so I can´t remove it.

Now I want to know if this lens is a good quality lens. I´ve loked on web but I´ve not meet anything about this model ( image circle or other specifications ) It´s worth to send it for change the shutter? If I want to sell it how can I ask for it?

[Dan Fromm]

eduard, the Heliar is supposed to be a fine lens. The 210 is a normal lens for 5x7, allows limited movements.

Compound shutters are very robust, can usually be repaired. Your repairman seems to have done a bad job.

In the US, www.skgrimes.com and www.flutotscamerarepair.com will work on them; there may be others.

In the EU, try http://pagesperso-orange.fr/nicorep/index.htm , http://www.photosuffren.com/ , http://www.photo-technique.com/

Sorry, I'm not aware of any good repair shops in Spain.

[Steven Tribe]

For many many people the Heliar is the portrait lens. Wide open it does give a very pleasing glow on faces. Compound shutters have a very good reputation and were made for a long period and were the standard fitment ex-voigtländer. Finding a replacement shutter will be difficult without considerable costs. You can find image circles at Cameraeccentrics website. I am not sure your serviceman is correct about why the speeds are up. If the shutter speeds are consistent, I would suggest you accept them as they are and choose film speeds and aperture which match your planned use. Heliars are quite common on e**y so you can judge value there.

[eduardtoader]

thank you Dan. It´s great to have arround people that know more than I.. It´s very helpfull. I´m lerning a lot here.. thank you all that endure my rough english! :(

Yeah.. Is the only repair man in 400 km area. He is an old man who was living and working in Switzerland. I´m shure that he know more than I about cameras but i´m shure too about the lens not work good.

I will take a look to your links.

best regards!

[cdholden]

Eduard,
As long as you're exposing for conditions that require slow times, you can still use the "B" setting for "bulb" and count the time manually. It will still allow you to use the lens, and will delay or prevent you from having to spend the money to fix it if money finds it is not ready to leave your wallet yet.
Bueno suerte.
Chris

[Ken Lee]

I have one of these lenses. Here are two larger files, from photos were made with it on 4x5 TMY.

Modern designs are coated, and provide greater coverage and color fidelity - but the Heliar is a superb lens for many situations.

http://www.kennethleegallery.com/html/tech/still3.php
(http://www.kennethleegallery.com/html/tech/still3.php)
http://www.kennethleegallery.com/html/tech/still4.php

[eduardtoader]

hello Steven.
I thought to keep the lens without another repair sesion but i´m not shure about the speed equivalence. I have only one choice to use it correctly - with the flash, so I would like to have i for more light situations.

I looked on the e**y but there are not another like mine.

[Steven Tribe]

There are 5 on the site! All in compound shutters like yours.

Current listing ending tomorrow 170461375507.
Completed listings 29045030792 , 320497971055, 110480004584 and 150420454074.

[eduardtoader]

You right, Steven. I marked the worldwide options but this morning I didn´t saw anyone..

I wil send mine to fix it. The french camera repair have reasonable prices.

[Philippe Grunchec]

In France, Maël Bilquey who is located in Limoges (not too far from Spain) does a very good job at very reasonable prices!
http://www.photo-technique.com/

[CCHarrison]

The Heliar has a great smoothness to the images it forms. See attached for an example... My toddler's stuffed animal...focus on the mouth. Notice the sharpness in the threads, yet an overall smooth or round appearence to the entire image... 150/4.5 coated, at f8

Also see my Heliar Article http://antiquecameras.net/heliarlenses.html

Best
Dan

[eduardtoader]

Merci, Philippe.

I wrote to him and I received the answer. It seems to be a good choice. His english is very good and he gave me the price about the descrition and the same photos attached here. If I will be pleased with his work, I will send him more (although I don´t like a lot to buy faulty items...)

A bientòt !

[eduardtoader]

Hello, CCHarrison. Thank you for the article.

The effect of the lens is interesting although the size of the photo are small.

I´m thinking to make a tipology portrait work , this summer in the eastern Europe - with natural light ( something like the Avedon work but less hard ). I have a Schneider Xenar 210mm f 5,6 in Copal nº 3 and the sick Voigtlander. Wich are you think is better for it ?

Here you can see the start of my project: http://eduardtoader.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/rapsodia-romana/ Don´t look the rough face of the blog ( or my english ). I´m trying improve on..

If I would extend the bellows, I could make macro with it or is a bad idea?


Do you heard about some exhaustive photographic lens ecnciclopedia? I would be great to read something like it. I think I would be sleeping with it :D under my pillow...


best wishes for you.

[Philippe Grunchec]

I just got a 4.5/210 Heliar (Linhof selected) in a Compound 3 as a friend to my 4.5/210 Xenar also in Compound, and of the same period (ca. 1965)!
I will "compare" them soon.
BTW, they both seem to cover 8x10 at full aperture (with no movements).

[eduardtoader]

Hy again.

I never used a 8x10 camera, so I woukd like to ask something about this lens on such camera.

Could someone say me wich "35mm" equivalent lens would be a 210mm on 8x10" format? It´s something like a 90mm on 4x5" or is more teleview? It´s worth to use a Heliar as a angleview on a 8x10" camera? Wich cirle of image have this Heliar?

I also have a Schneider 210mm Xenar f4,5 in copal3. It cover the 8x10" format? Any 210mm LF lens should cover the 8x10" format having the same angle view? Wich circle of image have this Xenar? Wich is your opinion about this lens?

I bought last month another 240mm Heliar. The cylinder are moving and need to see it a mechanic-but the lens is in almost mint shape. I was surprised when I saw it. It have almost double diameter as the 210mm..

I´m keeping the 210mm, the 240mm and this Xenar without caps. If anyone have the six caps to sell (for save the shipping) , I´m interested.
thank you.

Thank you all. Best holydays and a happy new year.

[Ramiro Elena]

Hola Eduard,

I don't know much about those lenses but I suspect the Heliar 21cm might not cover 8x10 at infinity. I know it covers 13x18cm though because I have one.

Whenever I am in doubt I check Camera Eccentric (http://www.cameraeccentric.com/info.html) website. It has many catalogs with very useful information.
For Schneider lenses (last pages):
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/schneider_11.html

For type of lenses I usually measure the negative's diagonal in milimeters. That, I consider normal lens (a 50mm equivalent in 35mm film). Bellow is wide angle.

[eduardtoader]

Thanks, Elena.
I didn´t knew about camera eccentric. Is a site very usefull.

You right. The 21cm Heliar don´t cover 8x10".

But √(200^2+250^2 )=320 so this would be the normal lens for 8x10"
As √(100^2+125^2 )= 160 the mormal mens for 4x5" format
IMHO
I don´t know anything about 8x10" and his lens coverage. Lot of times, I have to ask about very simple questions. :(
Please forgive my stubborn and my rough english..

Thank again for help.

[Maris Rusis]

I use my Heliar 1:4.5 / 21cm on the Tachihara 8x10 without vignetting at infinity but it is possible only because the picture area on the negative is less than 8x10 by the width of the rebates in the holder. Even so there is only 1mm to spare so lens centering is critical.

The shutter works like a typical old Compound; madly inaccurate but very consistent:
1/100 = 1/40
1/75 = 1/15
1/50 = 1/10
1/25 = 1/8
1/10 = 1/5
1/5 = 2/5
1/2 = 3/4
1 = 1 4/10

I've never been tempted to fix it.

[orgraph]

I have one of these lenses. Here are two larger files, from photos were made with it on 4x5 TMY.

Modern designs are coated, and provide greater coverage and color fidelity - but the Heliar is a superb lens for many situations.

http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/still3.html
(http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/still3.html)
http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/still4.html

Ken, Do you know Image Circle of Heliar 210/4.5?
Yuriy

[Bernice Loui]

Info on Heliar and more:
https://www.arnecroell.com/voigtlaender.pdf

Used a 210mm f3.5 Heliar for years, essentially a 5x7_13x18cm lens with very modest movements. Has a larger image circle of illumination which is NOT the same
as image circle of GOOD performance (about 233mm, 5x7 needs about 215mm image circle) .

As for shutter, this 210mm f3.5 Heliar is in barrel used with Sinar shutter.. shutter speeds and related becomes a non-issue.


Bernice



Ken, Do you know Image Circle of Heliar 210/4.5?
Yuriy

[orgraph]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49973838428_f9c9f48e3a_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j91Z6W)Kiev Rus, 2020 4x5 (https://flic.kr/p/2j91Z6W) by Yuriy Sanin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52922077@N08/), on Flickr

[orgraph]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49399334552_b98c8c9ede_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2igfv7G)2020-01-04 Kyiv Region Ukraine Foma 100 in XTOL 1+3 8 vin002-01web2 (https://flic.kr/p/2igfv7G) by Yuriy Sanin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52922077@N08/), on Flickr

[orgraph]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49229368796_d7c904319a_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2i1eodC)Ukraine. Wista SP 4x5, Heliar 210/4.5@22, Foma 100 in XTOL 1+1, 8 min (https://flic.kr/p/2i1eodC) by Yuriy Sanin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52922077@N08/), on Flickr

[orgraph]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49340290243_29e423d101_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2ib2Tin)2016-12-19 Ivankov Ukraine webs (https://flic.kr/p/2ib2Tin) by Yuriy Sanin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52922077@N08/), on Flickr

[Ken Lee]

Ken, Do you know Image Circle of Heliar 210/4.5?
Yuriy

Sorry Yuriy, I don't own that lens any more - but the figure of 233mm given in Arne Croell's document, provided by Bernice, sounds right: enough for 5x7 film with minimal view camera movements at infinity and more movements as we focus closer.

[orgraph]

Sorry Yuriy, I don't own that lens any more - but the figure of 233mm given in Arne Croell's document, provided by Bernice, sounds right: enough for 5x7 film with minimal view camera movements at infinity and more movements as we focus closer.

Thanks a lot!