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Bob McCarthy
22-Mar-2010, 14:07
What makes a Deardorff such a revered camera?

Workmanship?

Movements (??)

History?

There are plenty for sale, how to find a good one??

I switched to 8x10 end of last year, my Sinar P, wonderful but.....

hmmmm.... largish

Weight is not an issue, bulk and portability are...

bob

Robert Hughes
22-Mar-2010, 14:58
Saint Ansel used one. So if you buy one, you will take pictures just like AA. 'Nuff said...

Right? :)

Daniel Stone
22-Mar-2010, 15:19
workmanship: built to last (I've only used a 'dorf once, but it was a great camera)

movements: probably the best camera for wide angle work, but also takes longer lenses, without switching bellows.

history: the same family was building them, hence the name.

plenty for sale: there are lots of them out there because they're great cameras, were used by many backpackers and professional photographers for decades. they just last. There are many versions out there, but the age shouldn't matter much. Try to get one with front and rear swings, deardorff was converting older cameras to have front swings, so its kind of hard to find out if one is "newer" than another. There are serial #'s(sometimes), but if you can get one with good bellows, and all the movements lock down nicely, I wouldn't worry about the age.

but, THEY'RE HEAVY. Definitely not as large as a sinar p, but they lock down pretty solid, and just work.

just remember, these are/were tools, not pieces of art(like some see Leica's and Ebony's). They were designed to be used, and used a lot. So they generally don't look all that pretty, but they don't have too, unless YOU'RE like that :p.

besides, having some battle scars just helps you out when you're on the south rim of the Grand Canyon, and joe-schmoe walks up with his digicrap p&s and tries to make you look like a fool. "How many mega-gigapixels does that crap-heap have?" you can reply a cool "200-300"

watch his jaw drop :D

-Dan

Mark Woods
22-Mar-2010, 16:11
I have both the P and the Dorff. I use the P in studio and the Dorff in the field. I really like both of them.

Brian Ellis
22-Mar-2010, 17:05
I don't know that they're "revered." They're popular because they were "the" camera for architectural photographers originally and then other types of pros for many years. So there's a lot of them still around. I've had two and thought they were a great combination of good workmanship, simplicity of design and use, precision (for a wood camera), and more than adequate movements. I don't consider 12 pounds particularly heavy for an 8x10. A few lighter 8x10s have come on the market in recent years (Ritter, Wehhman, Canham Light Weight) but the extra roughly 4 pounds of a Deardorff isn't that big a deal when you're already carrying around 8x10 film holders, other 8x10 gear, and a backpack to hold it all. Plus even one in mint condition costs less than a new Canham Light Weight.

The main thing I was told to check carefully when buying a used one was the underside of the base, to make sure there are no cracks in the wood or splits in the seams that had obviously been repaired. There was an article in View Camera magazine years ago about what to look for when buying a used Deardorff. The magazine used to sell reprints of that article for about $5. I no longer have mine or I'd send it to you but you might check to see if they still sell copies. I thought it was helpful.

rfesk
22-Mar-2010, 17:13
Adams didn't use a Deardorff. For 8X10 he used mostly Kodaks and Anscos among others.

Michael Kadillak
22-Mar-2010, 17:25
Saint Ansel used one. So if you buy one, you will take pictures just like AA. 'Nuff said...

Right? :)

From Ansel Adams Examples - The Making of 40 Photographs

Page 88 Rock and Surf

"I do not recall what or view camera or lens I was using but it could have been a Deardorff camera I was trying out. I did not keep the Deardorff; it was a beautiflly made instrument, but the adjustments were not adequate for me"


Each of us has our own like and dislikes when it relates to make images with a view camera and in this regard Ansel was no different. At the confluence of price and functionality each of us is fully capable of assessing what uniquely works for us when we make photographs. I never found the 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10 Deardorff cameras that "special" to justify the high prices they garnered in years past. There were simply other more economical offerings to get me in the image making business. Recently I found a marvelous Marine V11 Deardorff that I find simply amazing to make images with.

Try one and see if it works for you.

Cheers!

Bob McCarthy
23-Mar-2010, 06:19
I would try one, if I can figure out how not to buy one with issues. Lenses I buy and sell without fear, they're pretty reliable and I think I've gotten and given fair value. I only buy mint lenses and take care of them. Still stinging over missing Galli's 355 G-Claron.

Cameras, I usually overpay for mint and get good...... Or I buy being told the camera has a "lighttight" bellows and get a planetatium when I shine a flashlight in a dark room. .....And standards need overhauling.

Honestly the only "Great" camera deal I ever made was my Leica M2 and a brace of Leitz's best. But I bought it at an estate sale 30 years ago but I examined it first hand, before buying.

So with a camera like a deardorff where an overhaul is a year long project, how do I find a good one. Am I being overly cautious??

bob

Michael Kadillak
23-Mar-2010, 08:24
Cameras, I usually overpay for mint and get good...... Or I buy being told the camera has a "lighttight" bellows and get a planetatium when I shine a flashlight in a dark room. .....And standards need overhauling.

Honestly the only "Great" camera deal I ever made was my Leica M2 and a brace of Leitz's best. But I bought it at an estate sale 30 years ago but I examined it first hand, before buying.

So with a camera like a deardorff where an overhaul is a year long project, how do I find a good one. Am I being overly cautious??

bob

If you have the mentality of replicating the estate sale find, then you better be patient because it will be a long time with a good portion of luck involved to pull this off. Deardorff cameras inherently have a reputation in this market as a "desired" product and as a result even cameras that do not rate as high as you would like to see them rated sell for a relatively high price. Mint Deardorff cameras command high prices - even in this depressed economy. It is what it is.

If you want to make photographs with a folding field camera then you look for the best deal you can find and the options are considerable. Deardorff is only one of many alternatives for you to consider and the entry point can be much less. If making images with the camera is not the dominant theme then that is a different set of objectives. One thing I can tell you is that I would never contract Ken (the Deardorff expert) to do any repairs or refinishing on my camera because his customer services is not up to par. Richard Ritter is the man with the plan.

Bob McCarthy
23-Mar-2010, 08:55
Honestly, I just want what is described. I understand old. I understand used. What I'm seeing is virtually every Deardorff that has sold this year, here or ebay, went for 1200-1500, some were very nice some were,hmmm crap.

I'm looking for clues for points of weakness or concern.

I'm OK with putting my head in the Lions mouth, just want to know the ground rules first.

BTW, thanks for the comments and advise, greatly appreciated.

bob

Donald Miller
23-Mar-2010, 09:14
I have owned and rebuilt three Deardorff 8X10 cameras. The things that I observed were that the base (four sections) can separate along the joints. I was able to repair mine and I understand that this does not necessarily mean that the camera is ruined. Beyond that are the geared tracks...these can become worn but are adjustable to compensate for wear. The bellows can develop pin holes just like every other field camera ever built. Western Bellows made beautiful bellows for those I replaced. The metal on older pre front swing cameras is painted and may need refinishing. The metal on front swing cameras can become pitted and worn...does not prevent the camera from use. The light trap on the lens standard rise can be worn and need replacement ...again repairable.

If I were to buy a Deardorff today I would want to purchase it with a 7 day right of recision. Since I have rebuilt those I personally would not be overly concerned about any camera out there...but that is my opinion and may not parallel those of others.

The pre front swing camera was lighter than the later cameras...certainly useable if one did not use front swings often.

Michael Kadillak
23-Mar-2010, 09:16
You have answered your own question Bob. In a depressed market these cameras have set their price points. Based upon the homework you have done I say that you will be into this at a price point over $1,500. Paying less than this established price would not be advised for obvious reasons. The condition of the sale should be the right to put the camera through its paces for a week and check everything over for yourself. There are no rules of engagement or strong or weak points. Talk to the seller and use your instincts. You get the camera, set it up and use the controls and check the bellows and it either works or it does not. Your transactional risk should only be the return postage. I would say that the experience is worth the risk because you will learn from it. Good luck!

Craig Roberts
23-Mar-2010, 12:26
I have been using LF cameras for 40+ years now beginning with 4x5. In the course of this time, I have tried out a lot of different models of cameras and changed equipment as my work moved away from commercial work to self directed projects, specifically the landscape and the human form.
I found that I did not like using “monorail” types in the field and switched to field type cameras.
In the 8x10 format, I have used an Ansco, a Burke and James, a Century 7A, a Wizard, a Blair, a Wista, an Eastman 2-D, a Hoffman, a Korona, a Tachihara and a Deardorff. I use two of them regularly; the Eastman 2-D and the Deardorff. Each of these has features that I like and I am familiar enough with them that they don’t get in the way of my work.
There were features on the others that I liked and there are features on all of them that I disliked.
It would be great if you had the opportunity to get some “hands on” trials with different models to see what suites you best. I don’t believe that there is a perfect camera nor am I willing to invest in a status (expensive) camera. All of the cameras I have used were capable of producing fine images.
Good luck with your search. Craig

Brian Ellis
23-Mar-2010, 18:08
I would try one, if I can figure out how not to buy one with issues. Lenses I buy and sell without fear, they're pretty reliable and I think I've gotten and given fair value. I only buy mint lenses and take care of them. Still stinging over missing Galli's 355 G-Claron.

Cameras, I usually overpay for mint and get good...... Or I buy being told the camera has a "lighttight" bellows and get a planetatium when I shine a flashlight in a dark room. .....And standards need overhauling.

Honestly the only "Great" camera deal I ever made was my Leica M2 and a brace of Leitz's best. But I bought it at an estate sale 30 years ago but I examined it first hand, before buying.

So with a camera like a deardorff where an overhaul is a year long project, how do I find a good one. Am I being overly cautious??

bob


Have you checked with View Camera magazine for a reprint of the article on buying a used Deardorff as I suggested in my previous post? If they still sell reprints that would be an excellent place to start to learn what questions to ask. FWIW, I've bought 14 (I think it is) LF cameras over the years, 11 used, 3 new, and never had an experience like the ones you describe. I think you're buying from the wrong people. Stick with reputable dealers or ebay sellers with sterling feedback and you should be o.k.

Mark Woods
23-Mar-2010, 21:41
I bought mine 2 years ago for $750. It didn't look very nice. It had stencils on it with the Photographer's name. He'd had it for 20 years or so. And no one bid on it. It had some hardware problems that I was able to replace for about $40 and I love it. It's an old war horse, but is totally sound.

Richard Rau
22-May-2011, 12:34
Just an interesting side note: I have an old price list from LF Deardorff from 1972 and a brand new V8 sold for $750.00! But then gas prices were under .54 cents back then as well. There is a photo showing Ansel using one on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, possibly in the late fifties or early sixties, so he did use one at one time, but obviously favored the Kodak Master View.

TheDeardorffGuy
22-May-2011, 13:13
Deardorff got its reputation in the 30s believe it or not in the catalog studios in Chicago. They could do movements a 2D or Ansco could not do and with Deardorff in town there was lots of contact between the designer and photographers. Every wood camera has its ills and Deardorffs was the bed, It started with a 13 part parquet style bed that was very laborous to build. Then the 4 section bed, that if the raw wood was not dried correctly split from shrinkage or the hide glue used to bond it together gave way. I have many that were used daily for decades. There is one thing that NO ONE did to their cameras. LUBE them. If they are lubed every 6 months they last and last. They have plenty of movements. What you have to do is actually look at the glass when using them. Are they better than other LF cameras? Yes. Are they less than desireable than other LF cameras? Yes. Is there a perfect camera? No. I have used every version of the folders and the controls work exactly the same on each size. If you want one I sell fully remanufactured cameras. Contact me off list please.

aluncrockford
22-May-2011, 13:16
Having a P2, Tachihara and a Deardorff I would say that the Deardorff is the most instinctive to use, I would look for one with front swing and decent bellows, Deardorffs are a camera designed to use and they usually have been, so do not let the fact that they are usually a bit knocked about put you off, the plus side of having a used camera is you are not over concerned with its appearance and you just get on with taking pictures, mine cost about 1900 dollars which i feel was money well spent

atlcruiser
22-May-2011, 16:21
I have had mine a few months now....Overall I have limited experience with othe 810s but I find the deardorff to be very easy to use, easy to set up and somehow it just feels right. I found mine on range finder forum with the camera, 2 holders, a reis tripod and a 360 commercial lens for $2,000.

I took a bunch of test shots and found that I really loved the camera but it felt sort of "wonky."

Lucky for me I am not too far from LF Deardorff and Sons. I scheduled a quick Sat app. to get a new strap and a quick look over of my new camera. Barry laughed when I showed it to him! It had been taken apart and messed with many times.....About 1/2 the camera only "sorta" worked. After Barry worked his magic I suddenly had a beautiful, well working machine. I had no idea how wonky it was!

Deardorff and Sons will restore your new or existing camera or they can actually sell you a new one from the old stock they have aquired from the estate of Deardorff.

My only connection to LF Deardorff is as a customer and now a friend. I would suggest a phone call to Barry and he will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about how to buy a used 'dorff. He and Monica have it going on and there is a very nice story to the entire business :)

http://www.deardorffcameras.com/

http://www.deardorffcameras.com/

Thom Bennett
23-May-2011, 06:20
At the risk of being sacrilegious (and as much as I love using my Deardorff) I have to say that if I were buying now I would look at the Kodak Master View 8x10. Similar movements to the Deardorff plus front shift and its an all metal camera which, as I understand it, means less "wonkiness." Same weight as well. I saw a couple recently and really liked them. Not as many on the used market as Deardorffs so probably less accessories, etc. but it might be worth a look. All that being said, I ain't giving up my Deardorff.

atlcruiser
23-May-2011, 12:32
I saw them with Thom and fell in love but the prce kept me away a bit.

Deardorff and sons is currently working on a retro fit for the 810s so that they can have shift...i have ofered to be the gunnie pig!

Lynn Jones
23-May-2011, 15:04
Hi guys, I've been aware of Deardorff cameras since the early 1950's when I was in USN Med Photo School. I met and became friends with the Deardorff family in the late
1950's. In the early 1960's Merle, John, and Jack became good friends, we were all members of the Mid States Industrial Photography group. I was with Calumet when we were making 85% of the view cameras in the world but our friendship was not affected.
Merle ran the company, set up the advertising and what ever, however, Merle was a "nut case". An ultra right wing nut who loved to think about shooting any minorities that he could think of. Younger brother John was the Manager of Manufacturing and a nicer human you could ever expect to find. Jack, John's younger brother was in training to take any job in the company, he was one of my best friends in the business. John died and Jack took over his job. Some years later, Merle retired to the Rio Grande Valley in Texas. Jack ran the company until he sold it to a Japanese company which planned to continue the manufacturing, it didn't happen. Some years later Jack started making the camera again under another name while doing repairs and other things until he died.

Interestingly when we (Calumet) started making the C1 magnesium 8x10, i called Jack and asked him for the precise specs fort the Deardorff lens board so that lenses for both cameras would interchange, he did, stating that it was a great idea. Jack and I would talk every few months until I stopped hearing from him, only to find we had lost him.

Lynn

Scott Sharp
23-May-2011, 19:36
I just bought a V8 Deardorff and though it was advertised as being ready to take photos and in good shape etc...the bellows were shot on it. I could have sent it back but the rest of the camera was in such good shape that I decided to keep it.

For any potential candidate for purchase make sure those bellows are light tight and flexible. You are going to fold and unfold the camera many times in the field and a hard inflexible bellows is a pain to work with. It also puts added stress on the camera.

That said, I am looking forward to new bellows and using the Deardorff this summer.

E. von Hoegh
24-May-2011, 08:46
Mine was made in 1951. I bought it in 1988, and refinished it. There were no bedplate issues, despite the fact that it had obviously seen much use. It is the 54th V8 to be made with front swings. It is still tight and solid, and has the original bellows. That says all that I think need be said about the design, workmanship, and materials.
I do not find it heavy; 13 pounds for an 8x10 with full movements and 30" of bellows sounds pretty good. As a field camera, it does just what I need done. It has adequate movements for any architectural or tabletop work I will ever do.

So the answer is "all the above" :).

Jim Galli
24-May-2011, 11:55
Hi guys, I've been aware of Deardorff cameras since the early 1950's when I was in USN Med Photo School. I met and became friends with the Deardorff family in the late
1950's. In the early 1960's Merle, John, and Jack became good friends, we were all members of the Mid States Industrial Photography group. I was with Calumet when we were making 85% of the view cameras in the world but our friendship was not affected.
Merle ran the company, set up the advertising and what ever, however, Merle was a "nut case". An ultra right wing nut who loved to think about shooting any minorities that he could think of. Younger brother John was the Manager of Manufacturing and a nicer human you could ever expect to find. Jack, John's younger brother was in training to take any job in the company, he was one of my best friends in the business. John died and Jack took over his job. Some years later, Merle retired to the Rio Grande Valley in Texas. Jack ran the company until he sold it to a Japanese company which planned to continue the manufacturing, it didn't happen. Some years later Jack started making the camera again under another name while doing repairs and other things until he died.

Interestingly when we (Calumet) started making the C1 magnesium 8x10, i called Jack and asked him for the precise specs fort the Deardorff lens board so that lenses for both cameras would interchange, he did, stating that it was a great idea. Jack and I would talk every few months until I stopped hearing from him, only to find we had lost him.

Lynn

Thanks Lynn. I love the little tid bits. BTW, something got lost in the translation. I always have to "force" a C1 board on the Deardorff. Corners not quite round enough.

TheDeardorffGuy
24-May-2011, 16:55
Thanks Lynn. I love the little tid bits. BTW, something got lost in the translation. I always have to "force" a C1 board on the Deardorff. Corners not quite round enough.

The Deardorffs Round corner board varies all over the place depending who and how they were made in the wood shop. The Sliding panel should be .300 in radius.

Lynn Jones
24-May-2011, 17:09
Thanks Jim, by the way, i hurriedly was finishing this before class and some how said that Jack was John's youger brother, Jack was John's son, oh well, haste makes waste.

Lynn

Ben Calwell
24-May-2011, 17:58
I'm using a Kodak 2D 8x10 and am happy with it. I like that it's a non-folder -- easier and quicker to set up. I'm debating whether to spend $400 on a new bellows (which it desperately needs) and perhaps more money to get it "tuned up" at Richard Ritter's place and adding front tilt.
By the time it's over, I might be spending close to what a used, newer and in better condition 8x10 Tachihara or Wista might cost.
I'm always in a gear dilema.