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View Full Version : Cheapest/easiest way into 8x10?



welly
17-Mar-2010, 18:57
Hi chaps,

While I'm still trying to nail 4x5, I'm considering dipping my toe into 8x10 at some point in the near-ish future. I have my Sinar F2 which I'm very happy with. I would certainly consider getting additional standards/bellows etc. to turn this into an 8x10 if that's the easiest way otherwise I assume a whole new camera would be the alternative. As regards to lenses, I have 90, 150 and 210mm lenses (sinaron and the 150 is a nikon). I'm guessing the image circle on these lenses wouldn't be big enough for 8x10 and so a new lens would be required too?

Thanks,

Welly

welly
17-Mar-2010, 19:12
Try the old Calumet Green Monster, the 8x10 bulletproof camera that is inexpensive on the used market. A 300 f/9 Nikkor M lens will do you well. Two to six holders should fill out the kit nicely. You already have a dark cloth though a bigger one could be in order. You can make them easily. A solid tripod is a must so if yours isn't big enough plan for that addition.

In the darkroom, brush development, one sheet at a time in the dark and you can get by with smooth bottom 8x10 trays and scratched film will be almost non-existant. Clothes pins to hang the film to dry, a contact printing frame and you are in business.

I say the big Calumet camera because they work well, are inexpensive and many of them on the used market. Not as precise as your Sinar gear but it will do the job well.

Thanks for the suggestions there, I'll certainly have a look out for that camera. I'm not that precise with my Sinar either so I'm sure it'll do the job nicely :) I develop my B+W 4x5 sheets in a Paterson Orbital which works with 8x10 too so would be set up fine for developing.

So, a Calumet, a lens and a few film holders. I can do that. I tripod is quite substantial so I'm good for that. Onto the ebay I go!

Cheers!

Gem Singer
17-Mar-2010, 19:13
Hi Welly,

Keep your eyes peeled for a Sinar 8x10 conversion kit for your F2.

They sometimes show up on eBay.

Pick up a Nikkor f9 300M, and you have a very versatile kit.

The 300M is also a great long lens for 4x5 and a nice companion for your 150 Nikkor.

Bob McCarthy
17-Mar-2010, 19:24
If your looking for a 8x10 changing kit, I have one in excellent shape. You'll need to get a rear 8x10 F standard. Stephanie, here on the site had one that looked very nice, he was asking $200.

I can let you have the kit for what I have in it. $500.

bob

welly
17-Mar-2010, 19:26
Hi Welly,

Keep your eyes peeled for a Sinar 8x10 conversion kit for your F2.

They sometimes show up on eBay.

Pick up a Nikkor f8 300M, and you have a very versatile kit.

The 300M is also a great long lens for 4x5 and a nice companion for your 150 Nikkor.

I'll certainly look out for one of those lenses. The conversion kit was the route I thought I would probably be going down but thought I'd see what other options are. No luck at the moment on ebay for conversion kits but I'll keep my peepers open.

welly
17-Mar-2010, 19:29
If your looking for a 8x10 changing kit, I have one in excellent shape. You'll need to get a rear 8x10 F standard. Stephanie, here on the site had one that looked very nice, he was asking $200.

I can let you have the kit for what I have in it. $500.

bob

Will drop you a private message!

Walter Calahan
17-Mar-2010, 19:54
Get an 8x10 pinhole camera.

http://www.pinholecamera.com/prices.html

welly
17-Mar-2010, 21:01
Get an 8x10 pinhole camera.

http://www.pinholecamera.com/prices.html

Actually, that's not a bad idea. Would get me handling and developing 8x10 film, I could start getting some 8x10 film holders and in the mean time could start building up what I need for 8x10 on my sinar (or get onto saving up for a 8x10 field camera). Food for thought and only $200!

Kirk Fry
17-Mar-2010, 21:30
If you have to buy a M 300mm Nikkor, you should also consider a 12 or 14 in Commercial Ektar in good condition for less money. Agfa-Ansco 8X10's are pretty good starter cameras too for not a lot of loot. Majestic Tripods have a reputation of being very solid and come up cheap frequently (Mine is a niffty light weight 19 lb). KFry

jp
18-Mar-2010, 04:20
I've spent so far of my 8x10 gear:
$350 really nice B&J 8x10 field camera
$195 scheider 300/5.6 symmar s lens with perfect shutter (it's fault is a dent on the filter threads)
$100 film holders
$0 homemade lensboard out of scrap birch plywood.
$40 65.1mm holesaw bit at home depot.

Just read that in 1939, Eliot Porter spend $400 on a 8x10 camera and lens. Many of us can do that for pretty close to that today if we're not real fussy or don't mind fixing bellows, having lenses in need of CLA, etc...

Armin Seeholzer
18-Mar-2010, 05:03
Burke & James they rock!
Are versatile und most of the time cheap. They even better then the cult cameras of Deardorff!

Cheers Armin

Frank Petronio
18-Mar-2010, 05:07
For good reasonably priced 8x10 lenses, I like the 12 and 14-inch Commercial Ektars and the older Schneider Symmars, although the Nikkor 300-M has the advantage of a modern Copal shutter. The 14-inch Ektar is particularly nice for portraits.

What gets expensive is all the extras. Five good holders so you can load a 10-sheet box; a larger Harrison changing tent, a heavier tripod (#5 Gitzo w a Sinar pan-tilt head); some sort of carrying or storage case (the Liteware or Tenba view camera cases cost around $400 new and are the best way to fly or car travel with the beasts).

I heartily recommend staying with Sinar but you might consider buying a used Sinar 8x10 outright and either keeping the redundant parts as spares or selling off the extras, since parts usually command a better price than their wholes in today's market.

Don't forget you'll want about 30" of rail and having the extra standard available is very nice should you want to make a lenshade or use a Sinar shutter with barrel lenses.

And finally, watch out for the differences in the size of the backs and bellows between the F2-P2 MB metering bellows and the Norma-F-P non-metering bellows. Suck it up and get the 8x10 rear end - consider the P version because then you'll get 90% of the advantages of a geared camera since you do most moves with the rear (and the 8x10 rear gets heavy!) Don't forget about the very nice and solid Norma version. And if you do get a conversion kit, ponder how you will get enough front rise from the front standard without having the extra long legs that come with the 8x10 version?

When you're all set you can do all of the above for about $2000 if you're careful.

Then you can have the joy of shooting $7 per sheet film too.

Earlier on I've had the 8x10 C1 ($200); the Italian Fatif (really nice quality but slightly broken) $175; an early deGolden Busch (worst camera design in the world) $200; and a cheap Korona. Ilex Paragon lenses and wooden holders, rusty old tripods, etc. and I've shot with dark cloths draped over patched bellows. They can be fun if you have cheap film and don't mind tinkering, but if you really want to shoot and not worry about the equipment functioning properly, cut to the chase and drop the coin to do it right.

If you don't like it or can't afford it, you can always get your money out and stay even.

bbauer
18-Mar-2010, 07:22
consider an 8x10 cambo.

for some reason, these are the rodney dangerfield's of the large-format world, garnering little respect, and this is reflected in the low prices they typically sell for.

I've had a couple of both their 4x5 and 8x10 cameras, and while there's no denying that they're not as elegant as some of their higher-priced cousins, they're just as functional and surprisingly expandable. The square-railed monorail models are your best bet and the most mechanically reliable vs. the Legend series with geared movements.

Bob McCarthy
18-Mar-2010, 09:24
I was going down the same path a bit back. I believe the F2 has the long legs, I know my old F is a bit lacking.

$7 a sheet, don't scare him off. Its about $3 sheet for HP5+.

Tiny bit more for TMax400.

bob



And if you do get a conversion kit, ponder how you will get enough front rise from the front standard without having the extra long legs that come with the 8x10 version?

When you're all set you can do all of the above for about $2000 if you're careful.

Then you can have the joy of shooting $7 per sheet film too.

Stephanie Brim
18-Mar-2010, 09:34
I'm seeing $5 for TMAX 100 and $4 for HP5. Foma 100 is less than $3 a sheet. The Arista rebranded is $2. This is all from Freestyle.

But yeah, I think it's worth it if you want to contact print and like the aspect ratio of 4x5. Personally, I'm holding out for when I win the lottery since I'm falling in love with 5x7; when I move up it'll be 11x14! ;)

Gem Singer
18-Mar-2010, 09:34
A huge advantage to adding a Sinar 8x10 conversion kit is the ability to use the same lens boards for both 4x5 and 8x10.

Sinar-type lens boards are not inexpensive, and changing lenses to a different brand of lens board is a PITA,

Bob McCarthy
18-Mar-2010, 10:40
I'm seeing $5 for TMAX 100 and $4 for HP5. Foma 100 is less than $3 a sheet. The Arista rebranded is $2. This is all from Freestyle.

But yeah, I think it's worth it if you want to contact print and like the aspect ratio of 4x5. Personally, I'm holding out for when I win the lottery since I'm falling in love with 5x7; when I move up it'll be 11x14! ;)

check, B&H under $80 for 25 sheets of HP5+

bob

Robert Hughes
18-Mar-2010, 10:50
Then you can have the joy of shooting $7 per sheet film too.
I shoot that x-ray film, costs about $.30 a sheet - and it looks it! :p

Frank Petronio
18-Mar-2010, 20:22
You can use paper too ;-)

But... ten sheets of my favorite film (and the best film ever made), Kodak Portra 400NC in 8x10, costs $74.99 at B&H. There is nothing else close, it makes some shots possible that you simply can't do with 100 ISO film.

tim o'brien
18-Mar-2010, 21:49
Burke & James they rock!
Are versatile und most of the time cheap. They even better then the cult cameras of Deardorff!

Cheers Armin

I own both and the difference is night and day. One is a precision tool , the other takes photos after a fashion.

Own a Deardorff and you might never go back to your Sinar. Problem is, to get a decent Deardorff, you'll probably invest at least a grand. I got mine for 1500 dollars with two Ektar lens in great shape, working shutters, a 4x5 back, another 200 dollars got me a 5x7 back and a set of 4 new plastic 8x10 holders. All my other cameras (except my personal favorite 3x4 rb Graplex and a 4x5 Speed) will be soon fixed up and out the door. They are superfluous.


Cheers,

tim

John Kasaian
18-Mar-2010, 22:15
Yes a 'dorff is the way to go, but if were on a tight budget I'd take an Agfa Ansco Universal, Green Monster or B&J (in that order, in like condition)

There's nothin' wrong with Arista .eduUltra(Fomapan) either.

For a lens look for a 14" Commercial Ektar,250 WF Ektar, 240mm to 355mm G Claron, 12" Dagor, 14" to 19" APO Artar or a convertible like the Wollensak 1A or Symmar.

For holders the old Kodak black woodys usually work pretty good.

Have fun!

Marco
19-Mar-2010, 03:26
My first "cheap" 8x10" set up was a Calumet C1 (Green Monster) + Nikkor 300 M, I was very happy with the C1, I still have it...the only "problem" is with shortest lenses, since the C1 focuses only with the rear standard, so with extreme wide angle you need a loooooong neck ;) ...

Then I purchased a Sinar F2 8x10", I've been using it for the last couple of years, but recently I'm considering selling the Sinar and "going back" to the C1...don't get me wrong, the Sinar is a great camera, very precise and with lots of movements and for this aspect everything is easier, but it is much more cumbersome than the C1 and lately for me it's a real pain going around with the Sinar...

Ciao!!

Marco

eddie
19-Mar-2010, 03:38
there is a wood 8x10 camera for like 300$ in the classifieds. there is also a 12 0r 14 inch com ekta for less than 200$. go look there 1st.

e

Brian Ellis
19-Mar-2010, 09:29
Even at $3 a sheet and doing your own processing, using 8x10 as a LF learning tool is kind of expensive. I'd suggest nailing 4x5 first. Once you do that you won't have any trouble moving to 8x10. There isn't any real difference in using the two formats, it's nothing like the move from roll film to 4x5, everything is just bigger.

My first 8x10 was a Deardorff, still my all-time favorite wood camera in any format. But since you're interested in less expensive, the C-1 that others have suggested is probably your best bet in terms of low cost and availability. The Agfa Ansco someone else suggested would be good too if you can find one. I had the 5x7 and it was a very nice camera. The only thing I didn't like was the folding tailboard, which made it kind of bulky and difficult to fit into my backpack.

Another good choice would be a Kodak 2D if you can find one with the tailboard that isn't too expensive. I wouldn't buy one without the tailboard unless you shoot mostly with short focal length lenses. But with the tailboard they're very nice cameras (no front tilt so if that's a movement you use a lot it might not be your best choice).

Chris Strobel
19-Mar-2010, 12:01
My first "cheap" 8x10" set up was a Calumet C1 (Green Monster) + Nikkor 300 M, I was very happy with the C1, I still have it...the only "problem" is with shortest lenses, since the C1 focuses only with the rear standard, so with extreme wide angle you need a loooooong neck ;) ...



What I did on my C-1 for the short lens issue is what Christopher Burkett did on his black beast.I bought another 'beater' C-1 off the bay for parts, and cut down the rear rail.I now have two rails that can travel with me and be quickly replaced depending on lens length.My C-1 is the heavier black one made of aluminum.The lighter green ones made of magnesium are much more elusive, and I've never seen one for sale in the kind of condition my black one was in (like new) with all the accessories (compendium hood, dark cloth frame, reducing back, and owners manual)I paid around $450.00 for it, and the guy even threw in a Nikkor 480mm process lens free!The deals are there if your patient. If you can find a green one, make sure it is magnesium as there was a period of time they were painting the aluminum ones green as well.They are very easy to strip down and clean if you need to.This is a picture of mine with the normal rail in case you didn't see it in the 'show off your camera thread' and below it a picture of Christopher Burkett and his wife Ruth with their Black Beast.I highly recommend his book 'Intimations of Paradise' for a glimpse of some superb color landscapes shot on 8x10 chrome.

http://www.pbase.com/cloudswimmer/image/122141903/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/cloudswimmer/image/96729599/large.jpg

Andrea Gazzoni
20-Mar-2010, 13:30
what a tripod and head in the last picture with Christopher Burkett and wife!!!
anyone can point me to the brand/model?

thank you

Chris Strobel
20-Mar-2010, 14:06
what a tripod and head in the last picture with Christopher Burkett and wife!!!
anyone can point me to the brand/model?

thank you

Here is the link to the company that makes his tripod.http://www.sachtler.us/?id=1108 I don't know the exact model, but they are VERY VERY expensive!

Frank Petronio
20-Mar-2010, 14:07
That's funny, he could buy a stack of C-1s for what that tripod cost.

It really should be on a heavy twin-shank Majestic tripod given its heritage and looks.

mdm
20-Mar-2010, 23:59
Hey Welly

I have been through the same thing and decided to stick with 4x5. It is easy to get stuff and it is not expensive, most films will be available forever because there are a lot of 4x5's around. It is much more practical. I have been wanting a 5x7 but once you get another format you are maintaining 2 systems, more lenses, more holders, more film in the fridge. More money to pay. But oh, it is so tempting. Just take that ring off your finger and get some perspective for a while.

Really, what can you do with an 8x10 that you can't do with a 4x5. There is a lot of stuff you can do with a 4x5 that you cant do with an 8x10. A sinar 4x5 is excelent for very close up work, and for not much you can get a very nice new chinese field camera that will be light enough to carry anywhere. Also remember that to get this stuff to NZ costs a lot, once you have cleared customs and paid GST, double a USD price and that is about what you will pay in NZD. For someone elses junk. And you pay again on the other end when you find it sits in the cupbord and they are not paying a fair price on trademe. If you are shooting colour you are just going to scan the neg anyway at some stupid low resolution otherwise you end up with files that choke your computer. Really the only advantage is in contact printing and that can save you some money if you have not already shelled out for a scanner and a printer. Clearly an 8x10 contact is better than a digital print or even an enlargement, a lot less hassle too, but seriously, you will soon tire of them and then it will be an 11X14 and platinum prints.

Save the money and spend some time using the one you have already. If you really have to spend money then buy more film holders.

David

Chris Strobel
21-Mar-2010, 17:18
That's funny, he could buy a stack of C-1s for what that tripod cost.

It really should be on a heavy twin-shank Majestic tripod given its heritage and looks.

So true lol! I went for the Ries for mine, worked for Brett Weston.I figure if I can't shoot like Brett, at least my rig can look like his :D

http://www.pbase.com/cloudswimmer/image/57935879.jpg

Chris Strobel
21-Mar-2010, 17:21
Really, what can you do with an 8x10 that you can't do with a 4x5.

Make bigger prints from my 4990 scans for one, use it as an emergency boat anchor two, and three chicks dig big cameras :D

Michael Kadillak
23-Mar-2010, 17:35
For years I read that the Calumet C1 was an inferior camera and never really considered it. When I had an opportunity to acquire a barely used one at a killer price I took a chance only to find that it is a fabulous camera with many well engineered features. I use the camera regularly and it is a breeze to use in the field. Yes, it is not the lightest or best with wide lenses, but with a 19"-30" lens it is my personal preference over my Canham, Toyo M or Linhof Karden. The price of admission is more than reasonable.

Marco
25-Mar-2010, 00:52
Chris, thank you for the advice about the "alternative" rail for short lenses, it's a clever and simple solution!!

I have to quote Michael, the C1 is really a fabulous camera and I'm finding myself using it again and again instead of the Sinar...for what concern movements it only lacks rear rise, but it is something I can live with ;)...

Chris Strobel
25-Mar-2010, 08:30
Chris, thank you for the advice about the "alternative" rail for short lenses, it's a clever and simple solution!!

I have to quote Michael, the C1 is really a fabulous camera and I'm finding myself using it again and again instead of the Sinar...for what concern movements it only lacks rear rise, but it is something I can live with ;)...

Well Chris Burkett is the one who told me about the chopped rail, so we can both thank him :)

venchka
27-Mar-2010, 18:04
Let us not forget $30/100 sheets of 8x10 x-ray film. For the learning time. Or for a long time.

Filmsfun
9-Apr-2010, 22:45
Chris, thanks for sharing that image of your C-1, ready to leap into action. I just got a magnesium C-1 Green Monster (yippee!) and am curious is you have some generalized cleaning tips from your Black Beast? I'm going to use some bristle paint brushes (unused, than you) as a start to removing surface stuff. But I don't know if I should use WD-40 for both a cleaner and lube; or maybe a cleaning with iso alcohol and then very spare applications of teflon or graphite powder for lube (especially the rail grooves). Any illumination would be helpful.