Weights vs FL of Heliars etc.

[Richard K.]

I've been thinking of getting a Heliar, or Verito, or Port-Land etc. for my WP camera. There seem to be a few 300 mm Heliars around but I'm thinking that that's a little short for the format for portraits, no? So I would need a 42 cm Heliar, but don't those weigh like a 100lbs or so and have a huge diameter flange? How do you fine folks resolve this little conundrum? :confused: :rolleyes:

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

I see that 36cm Heliars were intended for 18x24cm plates, this is just a bit larger than whole plate so it should be perfect.

[Richard K.]

I see that 36cm Heliars were intended for 18x24cm plates, this is just a bit larger than whole plate so it should be perfect.

That, presumably would be for landscape (infinity)? For portraits don't most people use an equivalent to 35mm of 80mm or so (420 to 480 mm on WP)? Any idea of the weight/diameter of a 360 Heliar? Although....360mm would correspond to 60mm on 35mm, so that's not too bad I guess!

[8x10 user]

Portlands and other lenses 1 with element or group of elements are the lightest. Verito's, Pinkham Bi-quality's, Eidoscope's and similar lenses are not too bad. Triplets (Cooke or Heliar) weigh a bunch especially with included adjustable soft focus mechanism.

[Steven Tribe]

OK Richard here are some weights (on Sinar Boards):

Port-Land 18" 1100g
360mm Heliar 1805g

[Richard K.]

OK Richard here are some weights (on Sinar Boards):

Port-Land 18" 1100g
360mm Heliar 1805g

Not bad! Thank you.

[Ken Lee]

Long lenses, at f/4.5, requires a lot of glass.

Heliars exhibit their uncorrected aberrations, at wide settings. When stopped down past f/8, they give the results of other lenses. On the one hand, that makes them usable for a variety of applications, and a variety of lighting conditions. On the other hand, that means they are larger and heavier than other lenses we might use for general landscape photography.

A long lens, at close distances, has shallow depth of field, even shallower at wide apertures.

So when we consider size, weight, and depth of field, there emerges a workable range, so to speak, where Heliars will deliver images which differ from other lenses, provide enough depth of field for portraits, and... not be too heavy.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

360mm or 14" is a very standard length for an 8x10 portrait lens, so I think it will be just fine for whole plate. Anyhow, 35mm lens ratios don't translate well into LF, particularly the larger sizes.

[eddie]

i had two 420 heliars. one was the older model, the other newer.

the older model weighed 6 pounds while the newer one weighed 10! baffled me for sure.

the newer one is pictured in this thread (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=50137&highlight=420+heliar).


eddie

[Steven Tribe]

How big is the lens board on your 1/1 plate camera?

[Steven Tribe]

Another idea. Meniscus landscape/portrait - basically the same idea as the Port-Land but the older ones are not as heavily built as the Spencer product. I have an f.11 18" which weighs only 530g.

[Dan Dozer]

I use my 360 mm on my 8 x 10 Deardorf all the time for portrait work and it works just fine. The lens is on the heavy side so you need to keep that in mind depending on your camera. It is fine on the Deardorf, but it was a little too heavy for my old Kodak 2D.

I had a chance to compare the 360 to the 420 Heliars of Hugo Zhang. We mounted the 420 on a Deardorf size board (6 x 6) but it was larger than the board was. This one was very heavy and very large. I'm not sure I would want to try it on an 8 x 10 camera unless the camera and tripod are pretty strong. It's a little confusing the two different sizes that Eddie has experience with.

One thing to remember is that the Heliar is not a soft focus lens, the Universal Heliar is however. Many people like the look of the Bokeh that the Heliar gives with portrait work, so it has gotten a reputation as a portrait lens. If you can find (and afford) the Universal Heliar, you'll get the variable soft focus ring that most soft focus lenses have. I also have the Eidoscope and while the lens is twice as long as the Heliar, it is considerably lighter weight.

[Hugo Zhang]

Richard,

I agree with Dan Dozer. My 360mm Universal Heliar is heavier than my regular 360mm Heliar and I would imagine that a 42cm Universal Heliar will be heavier than my regular one as well. My Kodak 2D can handle that 42cm Heliar beast, but just barely. The 6" board is smaller than the flange. It's a dedicated portrait lens to be used around the house, too heavy for road trips.

Here my thoughts for your Ebony WP as I use a WP camera as well:

1. Get a 30cm Heliar in shutter (most likely a #5 compound shutter). Longer Heliars are usually unshuttered.

2. Consider a Wollensak Velostigmat or Vitax in shutter.

3. Get a Hermagis Eidoscope. You can use single element of that lens if you need long focal length.

4. Take a deep breath and get that Bi-Quality or Visual Quality lens and be done with your restless search.

Only pick one lens. :)


Good Luck!

[Jim Galli]

Richard,

I agree with Dan Dozer. My 360mm Universal Heliar is heavier than my regular 360mm Heliar and I would imagine that a 42cm Universal Heliar will be heavier than my regular one as well. My Kodak 2D can handle that 42cm Heliar beast, but just barely. The 6" board is smaller than the flange. It's a dedicated portrait lens to be used around the house, too heavy for road trips.

Here my thoughts for your Ebony WP as I use a WP camera as well:

1. Get a 30cm Heliar in shutter (most likely a #5 compound shutter). Longer Heliars are usually unshuttered.

2. Consider a Wollensak Velostigmat or Vitax in shutter.

3. Get a Hermagis Eidoscope. You can use single element of that lens if you need long focal length.

4. Take a deep breath and get that Bi-Quality or Visual Quality lens and be done with your restless search.

Only pick one lens. :)


Good Luck!

Or....get several of each in different sizes :D:D

[Richard K.]

Richard,
Here my thoughts for your Ebony WP as I use a WP camera as well:

1. Get a 30cm Heliar in shutter (most likely a #5 compound shutter). Longer Heliars are usually unshuttered.

2. Consider a Wollensak Velostigmat or Vitax in shutter.

3. Get a Hermagis Eidoscope. You can use single element of that lens if you need long focal length.

4. Take a deep breath and get that Bi-Quality or Visual Quality lens and be done with your restless search.

Only pick one lens.


Good Luck!

You mean I can't have all four ?!?!? :eek: Just kidding! Thank you so much for the list Hugo! I would love a VQ or BQ but no one wants to sell me one! :rolleyes: :)


Or....get several of each in different sizes

I think Mr. Galli has discovered my propensity to casually spend money I don't really have! :D

[Richard K.]

Richard,


Only pick one lens. :)


Good Luck!

This coming from the model of self-restraint that owns what, a few dozen lenses!?!:D :D