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renes
7-Mar-2010, 11:14
I keep in fridge 100 rolls (120) of TRI-X 320 Pro. Want to buy another 100-set but wonder how many years they will keep full quality...

5, 10?

Any experiences, suggestions?

trumil9
7-Mar-2010, 11:36
Low temperature slow down all chemical processes, but not stop. If you plan to buy bulky amount of film just plan how fast you will use your stock. If you already know that you can use 2 film weekly than leave 10 films in temperature 4°C, the rest keep in the freezer, etc. Temperature below 0°C/32°F almost stops all chemical activity. Then you can keep films many years. On your own risk (always:) ) , pozdrowienia

rguinter
8-Mar-2010, 10:21
Low temperature slow down all chemical processes, but not stop. If you plan to buy bulky amount of film just plan how fast you will use your stock. If you already know that you can use 2 film weekly than leave 10 films in temperature 4°C, the rest keep in the freezer, etc. Temperature below 0°C/32°F almost stops all chemical activity. Then you can keep films many years. On your own risk (always:) ) , pozdrowienia

I agree with Voytek. For long term storage of bulk film I have a dedicated film freezer, i.e., no food just film. Small upright or chest freezers are cheap and good insurance for long term storage. I have no film old enough to know for sure but other references I've read over the years indicate most films will last decades when stored at below 0F temperatures. Bob G.

Frank Petronio
8-Mar-2010, 10:30
10 year-old film in normal household freezer conditions will likely be fine, especially the B&W. Color film emulsion will lift off quicker than B&W, but I've shot 15 year old VPS 620 stored unfrozen and it's been fine. I had some 2002 color neg, stored at room temperature fail though.

Robert Hughes
8-Mar-2010, 12:24
For b&w film: if it was made before WW2, you may have a problem - then again, maybe not. I've seen 100+ year old exposed plates get developed with satisfactory results (maybe not this one from the Shakleton expedition, but there are similar ones out there...)
http://www.shackleton-endurance.com/Encsm.jpg

healyzh
8-Mar-2010, 14:07
I'm working my way through about 30 rolls of TMAX 400 that my Mom has had in the refrigerator since she bought it 10 years ago. My film drawer is full, so I just grab some when I'm over there. I developed one roll in Rodinal 1:100 Stand Develop for an hour, and it seemed overly grainy, but it seems just fine when developed normally in Ilford DD-X.

Milton Tierney
8-Mar-2010, 22:40
I purchased several boxes of 4x5 plus-x, try-x, tmax-100 and tmax-400 film in 1995. Kept them in a freezer at all times and tested them last year. Only the tmax films are still good today. Plus-x had the worst fog.

Drew Wiley
8-Mar-2010, 23:07
In the Shackleton case, it was more a matter of, how long can the photographer last
in the refrigerator?? Hurley was not only an incredibly brave photographer, but a very good one. I have a copy of The Endurance by Caroline Alexander, where the shots are nicely reproduced.

Allen in Montreal
9-Mar-2010, 05:45
There are a lot of variables, but TXP should last about 10 based on my experience.
I have had T-100 last 15 years kept in the freezer. Delta 3200 was scrap in 7 or 8.
I just finished a batch of 120 TXP that was around 12 years old and it was beginning to get an increased base fog.

if you are buying up the end of the Kodak 320 txp as a result of the film being discontinued, it may be worth it to get one of the mini bar styled freezers just for film if you have the space and freeze as much as you can.

When two stores closed their doors here I bought as much stock as I could in the final days. Very little of it has gone bad even after all these years.




I keep in fridge 100 rolls (120) of TRI-X 320 Pro. Want to buy another 100-set but wonder how many years they will keep full quality...

5, 10?

Any experiences, suggestions?

CG
9-Mar-2010, 09:03
Freeze it as cold as you can. Get all the film you want. It's insurance.

r.e.
9-Mar-2010, 09:56
My film shares space with the snowshoe hares, ducks and moose in an upright commercial freezer that maintains 0°F/-18°C ±2°F. This was a great investment, and comes in real handy if there's a 2½ day power outage like the one we had on the weekend :)

Jim Graves
9-Mar-2010, 10:41
Here's a link to Kodak's film storage PDF ... another culprit, besides heat, is background radiation: Link to Kodak PDF (http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/US_plugins_acrobat_en_motion_newsletters_filmEss_12_Storage_and_Handling.pdf)

Milton Tierney
9-Mar-2010, 13:34
Hmmmmmmmmmm! After 20+years in the deep freeze my try-x film became fogged. Me thinks I should have put it in a lead box.:rolleyes:

Robert Hughes
9-Mar-2010, 13:42
Me thinks I should have put it in a lead box.:rolleyes:Where? In the center of the earth? You may have a heat problem there.

Jerry Bodine
9-Mar-2010, 14:03
and another link to Kodak info on film storage:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/products/techInfo/e30/e30.pdf

renes
10-Mar-2010, 00:51
Thanks to all. This week I buy zip bags and all (200) my Tri-x 320 rolls go to feezer.

renes
12-Mar-2010, 08:29
But what about IR films? Should they be stored with special care than b&w?

Sevo
12-Mar-2010, 12:27
IR films are sensitive to thermal radiation from somewhere about 700-800°C up - way closer on a logarithmic scale to the 1500°C up of pan film than to the 38°C of a very hot summer noon.

When some IR films (like Kodak HIE or Efke) rapidly degrade(d), it was not because of their IR sensitivity itself, but rather because they were technically ancient high sensitivity film, where cosmic radiation or chemical decomposition will statistically hit a significant number of their few huge grains rather sooner than later.

Rollei/Gevaert IR film and Ilford SFX are more modern, and seem to have been developed to survive sitting in a traffic surveillance camera exposed to summer sun - in my experience they are extremely stable and need no special storage (I've used them on summer camping holidays where I could not protect them from heat for weeks).

Sal Santamaura
12-Mar-2010, 13:31
...Me thinks I should have put it in a lead box...Lead won't block the cosmic radiation.


Where? In the center of the earth? You may have a heat problem there.I've considered this option under 150' of limestone

http://www.undergroundvaults.com/offerings/securestoragefacilities/refrigeratedstorage.cfm,

which might be sufficient, but have been afraid to ask the cost. Film storage "group purchase (rent)" anyone? ;)

debanjan
17-Mar-2010, 06:04
Just for the sake of experimenting I have shot Plus X expired in 1975 - results were fine with stand development [1:100 Rodinal for an hour].. Intentionally over-exposed by a couple of stops. Please note that to the best of my knowledge these were stored in a cellar somewhere in Seattle and traveled half the globe to India after going through multiple X-ray scans. However high speed films deteriorate a lot and overall there will be higher level of fog in all the negatives.

So you can safely bet for 10 - 15 years if you freeze to get almost identical results as with new films is what I think. Owing to limited film availability in India, I often shoot with expired films [and not necessarily frozen films but films just kept in a cool place in a room with average yearly temperature ~ 25 deg Celsius] - never ever had any problems

Pawlowski6132
22-Dec-2012, 10:20
Why not just buy film and paper as you need t so it's always fresh????????

Sal Santamaura
22-Dec-2012, 10:42
Why not just buy film and paper as you need t so it's always fresh????????The OP started this thread one month after Kodak announced (February 2010) the discontinuation of 320TXP in 120 rolls. There would be only a fixed period of time after that to purchase more than the OP already had on hand before existing stock was sold out. It would not have been possible for the OP to just buy additional rolls of 320TXP as needed after that.

Early last year I purchased and have stored in our freezer more than 2,000 5x7 sheets of 320TXP as a "doomsday supply." Since then, Kodak declared bankruptcy and the future availability of its film products has become less certain. Even if one can continue to buy 320TXP sheets in the future, branded "Kodak" or something else, the street price to replace what I have is now more than 40% higher than what I paid for it. A good enough reason to stockpile all by itself.

As for freshness, even though classic 0.1 above film base + fog exposure index of 320TXP sheets processed using XTOL 1+3 in a Jobo comes in at 640 for me, I shoot it at 320 to get off the toe. Therefore, despite the inevitable increase in base fog due to cosmic radiation over time, I'm not anticipating any problem printing from negatives on this film, even those exposed and processed 20-25 years in the future. At worst, I might have to expose at 250 or 200 instead of 320.

Kevin M Bourque
22-Dec-2012, 11:00
In general, fast films fog more quickly than slow, however they're stored. I recently discovered a few rolls of Panatomic X that had been stored at room temperature since the day it was made. It shot it and developed it and it looked great. Hardly any fog at all.

As previously noted, chemistry slows down in the cold, so a small chest freezer in the garage is a great idea (provided you have a garage, of course). I keep all my film and paper in one. Occasionally someone asks about how often you can freeze and thaw paper or film. Neither one freezes (changes state) like we think of water freezing, at least not in a freezer you'd buy from Lowe's. These materials don't freeze or thaw, they just get cold and warm. As far as I can tell, the repeated change in temperature makes no difference at all. After all, film still works perfectly well below 0C; in fact, astronomers used to chill it it increase sensitivity.

Batteries last longer in the freezer, too. They can keep the film and paper company.

Sal Santamaura
22-Dec-2012, 12:09
...Occasionally someone asks about how often you can freeze and thaw paper or film. Neither one freezes (changes state) like we think of water freezing, at least not in a freezer you'd buy from Lowe's. These materials don't freeze or thaw, they just get cold and warm. As far as I can tell, the repeated change in temperature makes no difference at all...It's not quite that simple. See the discussion about water content and glass transition temperature of gelatin here:


http://www.wilhelm-research.com/subzero/MMG_Allowable_Temp_and_RH.pdf.

I've confidently stored my unopened packages of 5x7 320TXP in our freezer compartment because Kodak delivers the film in vapor-seal envelopes that were closed under low humidity conditions. Opened packages, as well as paper and Ilford film (which come in unsealed plastic inner bags), go only in the refrigerator compartment.

ic-racer
22-Dec-2012, 13:43
Why not just buy film and paper as you need t so it's always fresh????????

+1

Lachlan 717
22-Dec-2012, 14:02
Why not just buy film and paper as you need t so it's always fresh????????

Because I shoot ULF. Ilford only runs its special order once a year, so I don't have that privilege.

Gary Tarbert
22-Dec-2012, 16:38
Why not just buy film and paper as you need t so it's always fresh????????because everything i liked using has been discontinued in the last year .cheers gary

BetterSense
22-Dec-2012, 17:45
Why not just buy film and paper as you need t so it's always fresh????????

I shoot both TMX and TMY. Now that I have a kid, if I buy a 50 sheet box of each, it can easily take me 2 years to shoot it all up.

Gary L. Quay
22-Dec-2012, 18:45
I have Konica IR film in my freezer that expired in 1991. It's been frozen the entire time, except for when it was shipped to me in 2009. I've shot 2 rolls. They're fog free. I freeze everything except for a small stash of roll film that I keep in the fridge for emergencies.

--Gary

Lungeh
31-Dec-2012, 12:41
http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/00W/00W7OI-233025684.jpg
Kodak Royal Pan, manufactured 1954 and shot/developed in 2010. This box had storage ranging from indifferent to unknown for 50 years. I did use some benzotriazole, though, and exposed at asa 20 or so.

paulr
31-Dec-2012, 12:52
I just pulled out a pile of old film holders that I'd assumed were empty. They were full of film and had been sitting in my closet for probably six years. I pretty much live in a barn ... big temperature and humidity fluctuations.

I decided to toss the film. The holders full of tmx seemed like they'd been loaded yesterday. The film just popped out. The holders that had color neg film (I did a brief experiment with 4x5 color several years back) were a disaster. some of the film was covered with mold, and all of it was stuck to the holders. in a couple of cases, the film pulled the black paint off the holders when I finally ripped it out. The film also left some blobs of itself behind that had to be scraped off.

None of this is directly relevant to the fridge issue, but it suggests some potential differences between color and b+w film stock.

ImSoNegative
2-Jan-2013, 20:10
i have some plus x that is about 27 years out of date, some sheets seem good, others not so good.

rdelung
15-Feb-2013, 16:14
Is there any special way to repackage un-opened box's? I will be getting 120 rolls, and 4x5 sheet film. Thanks, R.Delung

rdelung
15-Feb-2013, 16:21
Could a person wrap each in layers of tinfoil before putting in moisture proof bags?? R.Delung

Ari
15-Feb-2013, 16:51
You don't need to worry about the tinfoil wrap; I used to remove those right away, then store my film in a Ziploc bag.
It was easier when on the job that the film was already unwrapped; one less thing to do in the bustle.
To store your film, keep it in the refrigerator.

Leigh
15-Feb-2013, 19:26
I'm working my way through about 30 rolls of TMAX 400... I developed one roll in Rodinal 1:100 Stand Develop for an hour, and it seemed overly grainy...
Rodinal is not an appropriate developer for fast films, nor (I think) for T-grain films.

It does a beautiful job with slow films (ASA ~100 and slower).

- Leigh

jayabbas
15-Feb-2013, 22:49
Tri -X 320 in freezer since 1987 --Stunning in it's capture ability ( HC 110 ). Verichrome of all vintages (1958 -1972,3 ) , just seems to hold the shadows no matter ( I use Rodinal always with VC). Ektapan in Selectol soft - haha and Super panchro press B in DK - 50 - 1960- and finally Agfa Isopan, circa 1956.

tiggert
16-Feb-2013, 08:51
I found a film holder with a sheet of TriX that I shot in 2001. The holder has moved with me 3 times, sat in the garage thru two Texas summers, and was expired test film when I bought and shot it. Processed it for fun and it was perfectly fine.

uphereinmytree
20-Dec-2014, 09:27
It was suggested to me that vacuum sealing before freezing would be helpful. I have a huge stash of efke 4x5 infrared film. it is not sealed in foil packets, although there is interleaving of a smooth lightly waxed type paper.

As I started vacuum sealing, I noticed that the boxes started to suck in effectively compressing the film. should I worry about damaging the emulsion in the long term? I have opened a vacuum sealed box after it had plenty of time in the fridge to thaw and it seemed fine, but it was only in the freezer for a few months.

anyone vacuum seal film before freezing?

DG 3313
20-Dec-2014, 10:00
I use a food saver to freeze film. I don't pull a vacuum on the box when I seal the pouch. I have been stocking up on TMY-2 and seal one box at a time. I was told to remove the film from the freezer and let it thaw in the fridge. After that I let it get up to room temperature before cutting the pouch.

Jim Noel
20-Dec-2014, 10:13
Some of the film in my freezer expired as long ago as 1968. The only type which has ever shown degradation from age is Plus-X. The Super XX, and Agfa Isopan look as good as new. Freezer temp stays below -10 deg F.

danno@cnwl.igs
20-Dec-2014, 16:33
The OP's question is sort of looking for our personal experience, rather than the "scientific" theoretical answer.

Rather like asking, "When does a man's sex drive fade away?"

To which, I'll offer to ask my Dad, who is now 94. But I'll have to wait until he gets back from his honeymoon trip. :)

Sirius Glass
20-Dec-2014, 16:43
I have kept black & white and color film [slide & C-41] frozen for over ten years without a problem. I only kept HIE 135-36 for a year or two without a problem. I no longer have HIE so I cannot provide any more IR film experience.

Luis-F-S
21-Dec-2014, 17:51
I've had around 1000 sheets of 4x5 Tri-X that expired in 1988 frozen the entire time except for 10 days following Katrina. I now have a whole house generator, so the last two storms did not result in a power loss. Although the base fog has gone up considerably, it is still usable. I'm currently doing some development time tests to see how to best use it. L

Rayt
30-Dec-2014, 00:42
Unlike Kodak and Fuji, Ilford films do not come in sealed envelopes. How does that affect long term frozen storage?

Sirius Glass
30-Dec-2014, 15:24
Unlike Kodak and Fuji, Ilford films do not come in sealed envelopes. How does that affect long term frozen storage?

I have kept factory sealed black & white and color film in the freezer for over ten years and never had a problem. I let the film warm up for at least an hour before I break the seal. Tor Ilford films, I would place them in a Zip Lock bag with most of the air pushed out.