how to develop old Kodak glass plates?

[trumil9]

I've got old 4x5 Kodak glass plates. Not exposed. After receiving plate holders I am almost ready to take pictures and develop negatives. Almost - it means that first part of this project is pretty easy. I am going to move out dark slide by steps about 1/2 inch, and each time increase time 1 second. Then I am going to receive "zebra" which will help me to determine the best time of exposure for this material.
Part second is much harder. How to develop plates. I have HP CombiPlan T tank with plate inserts, so it is easy. I always use for BW Rodinal 1:100, 22 minutes with some inversions, diluted vinegar as a stopper, Rapid fixer from Ilford, and tap water to rinse. I do everything in temperature 20°C/68°F.
Friend of mine suggests me to increase temperature, and develop quicker to avoid fogging emulsion. But he is not sure. I know nothing. What do you think? Thanks

http://www.logi9.com/sinar/plates-holder.jpg

One of the box (upper one) is marked "sensitivity 50", second not. Kodak folder fits my sinar. The rest is tabula rasa

[Robert Hughes]

Wait, hold on - won't these plates be more valuable if you keep them unexposed?

[trumil9]

It is still very easy to buy those plates. I have collection of 300+ manual lenses for 35mm, and some for medium format, it is good enough for me. I do not have any more space for old stuff. I paid for both boxes $21 including postage. And I want to learn something more about photography using those plates "as is", or just replace old emulsion with new one. And taking pictures.
I found Benzotriazole, which diluted as 0.2% -40ml per 1 liter helps prevent negative from fogging http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=Benzotriazole&N=0&InitialSearch=yes
Did anybody have any experience with this Benzotriazole?

[Jack Dahlgren]

How about this:

After you expose your stripes (which would go the short way as the slide pulls open), work in a dark room and gradually insert your plates in the same way (first half inch for one minute, then lower it a bit etc.

You will end up with a grid of exposures and development time. Pick the best square.

[trumil9]

How about this:

After you expose your stripes (which would go the short way as the slide pulls open), work in a dark room and gradually insert your plates in the same way (first half inch for one minute, then lower it a bit etc.

You will end up with a grid of exposures and development time. Pick the best square.

Very good idea, thanks. However I still don't know how diluted rodinal, and how long develop. What do you think?

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Err, not to throw cold water on your fun project, but you do realize that cumulative, background gamma radiation is likely to have fogged these plates many decades ago, right? (Even true had they been stored in a lead vault, so I've heard.)

[trumil9]

Right, but being more optymistic
Date stamped May 1959
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_nvVi0oowCc0/S4-GLZTjHiI/AAAAAAAAJDo/PsiRNeSiu2M/s800/IMG_5850x.jpg
Plate was exposed about year ago, this guy from Poland doesn't remember dilution of R09 Fomapan developer and time of developing, scan with regular office 4in-one
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nvVi0oowCc0/S4-GLosAfsI/AAAAAAAAJDs/SrxqmRlmNZg/s800/Scan-091125-0002.jpg

It means that 50years old plate was not totally damaged by catastrophe in Chernobyl

[Glenn Thoreson]

I think I would use the Rodinal at 1:50. Time will be by experiment. The Benzotriazole will help with fog. If you still get fog try using Kodak HC-110 developer or up the Rodinal to 1:25 to reduce the time in the developer. I have seen quite a few examples of photos taken on plates that were much older than yours, that came out pretty good. Good luck. :D

[trumil9]

Thank you Glenn, I will try 1:25 rodinal from the first time

[dsphotog]

Maybe they have already been exposed..... perhaps the lost Jimmy Hoffa portraits.
Hey, I use cameras older than I am, why not film, err... plates ?
Hope they work well for you!

[Robert Hughes]

perhaps the lost Jimmy Hoffa portraits.
Reminds me of some 40+ year old 16mm movie film I got - it has newsreel images of a parade. When I first looked at it, I swear I could see the Lincoln, and Kennedy, and the grassy knoll, and the guy with the umbrella... OMG!

What if I had an alternate angle to the Kennedy assassination?!? What would YOU do with it? Sounds like a great first act to an action thriller. And BTW, Hollywood, I thought of it first!

[trumil9]

(...)
Hope they work well for you!

Me too, thanks

[Jay DeFehr]

If I wanted to develop those plates, I'd use GSD-10 (http://gsd-10.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2006-12-21T12:51:00-08:00&max-results=7) with stand development, but Rodinal/R09 should work, too. Try 1:100 for an hour. If you meter your scene at EI 50, and then make four identical exposures in sequence, as you describe above, you'll have a range from EI 6-50. Cumulative exposure is not precisely linear, but this should produce a useful image on some part of the plate, from which you can deviate and refine as needed with successive plates. Try to compose an image in which there is a full range of tones in each exposure segment of the plate, which will make analysis easier. Of course, what you'd find, if all went to plan, would be the best exposure for the development given, but it's a start. Good luck, and have fun with those plates!

[trumil9]

Thank you Jay for information. I am just a beginner in film photography, everything is new for me, but I will be happy to try your formula in the nearest future.
Now I have additional question regarding anti-fogging agent. I check Freestyle and I find similar product to Benzotriazole -> potassium bromide. Did anybody from you try both? If YES, which one you would recommend? Thank you in advance.

[Jay DeFehr]

Voytek,

Since glycin produces almost no development fog, I wouldn't add any restrainer at all. I think these agents are better at preventing development fog than removing age fog. Which agent is best depends on the developer you're adding it to, the material being developed, etc.. These agents are very powerful, and so used very sparingly. Whichever you decide to try, I recommend making a 1% solution, and adding a few drops to your working solution. Good luck!

[W K Longcor]

Many ( But not all) of those old plates are orthochromatic -- so when it comes to developing - you can use a red safelight and see what you are doing. Old timers used a "finger pick" (small pointed metal thing on a thimble) to get under the glass plate and lift it off of the tray bottom -- they tend to stick to the tray when wet.

[goamules]

Did you get your plates developed? I just got some sealed Ilford Pano series E plates, ASA 32 I believe. I'm going to shoot them too.

Big question: my plates are backed, how do I tell the right side up in the dark? Are there any marks you can feel on glass plates, and where do they go?

thanks

[rjmeyer314]

I have several boxes of Kodak scientific glass plates of various tyhpes that I've been shooting in my view cameras. I develop them in Diafine. All films (and plates) get developed for the same time, so you don't need to know the time-temperature development details for your specific plates.

[dwross]

Did you get your plates developed? I just got some sealed Ilford Pano series E plates, ASA 32 I believe. I'm going to shoot them too.

Big question: my plates are backed, how do I tell the right side up in the dark? Are there any marks you can feel on glass plates, and where do they go?

thanks

If Ilford followed standard protocol with their plates, the plates will be packed in sets of two, wrapped together and separately from other wrapped sets of two. The plates are packed emulsion side together. If the plates aren't wrapped separately, but are only separated by interleaving paper, with luck, there will be a info sheet in the box. If not, you'll probably want to shoot and develop just one plate first to get the orientation of the rest of the box.

Fun! Best of luck.
d

[goamules]

Thanks a lot. I did open the pack last night in total darkness, and it felt like there were smaller, wrapped packs. They were thick enough to be two. I did a search, and they are from around 1928 or later.

Now I need to know a good develper to try. The package reads, "Any well balanced developer may be used, but the following are specifically recommended..." [Metol-Hydroquinone ID-2, MQ Borax ID-11] Both give formulas with Sodium Sulphite, Metol, and other salts. I mix all my chemicals for wetplate, but I hate to have to figure all this out. Do you think D-76 or HC110 would work?

[dwross]

ID-11 is essentially D-76. Should work. Keep the developing temperature on the cool side of its range. If I were you, I'd play with more than one developer. If your box of plates is good, you've got a real gift in your hands. You'd be doing photography a service if you report back with your results.