Greetings from South/West Australia

[polyglot]

Hi all, long time occasional lurker here, joining up to pump you all for information :)

I've been shooting DSLRs for a few years (I'm polyglot on dyxum.com) and an RZ67 for about a year now (yep, polyglot on APUG too), doing my own B&W processing and analogue printing. Got started on FB recently and will be giving a little show of MF images from my travels through Cambodia soon. Check out the link in my signature for some examples of what I get up to.

I'm joining up here because I want a more flexible camera for my landscape work, specifically movements. And wider angle than I can get from the RZ67.

I realise that all y'all are no doubt sick of "which camera do I buy" threads so to head that one off, can you refer me to a comprehensive summary of LF cameras that are readily available and that compares their features? I know vaguely what I want, just not what brands/models will give me that.

thanks,

[Vaughn]

Welcome!

What format size and type (studio/rail or folding field camera) are you looking for? It would help to know so one can narrow down the search for info.

I have found that the view camera's movements allows me greater creative control of the image. With 120 color film, I found using a roll back on a 4x5 camera a good combo -- usually 6x7. Haven't used it much since I moved up to 8x10.

Vaughn

[polyglot]

I think I'm looking for a field camera (well, something that can live in a backpack without fear of damage) of 4x5", maybe 5x7" if the price is right and I can get a reducing back. I want a 612 and maybe 617 rollfilm back for affordability and I-can-process-that reasons. As for movements: front rise, a little fall, front tilt and swing. I probably don't need back movements. Oh, and a modern lens of about 60mm to cover at least 617 and 4x5. Probably a ~120mm and ~200mm eventually.

The Chinese 612 back will likely be fine and my wanting to use mostly wideangles means their crazy offset-film-plane 617-on-4x5 contraption would be OK unless it limits tilt/rise by vignetting. A real 617 back on 5x7 would be preferable though. Will need a new scanner if I get to 617 though, not to mention a 4x5 enlarger, though I have access to a friend's.

View camera, no RF.

Edit: given the big aspect ratios I'm looking at, I want to be sure I can shoot both landscape and portrait and have rise in both orientations. I dunno if LF cameras have rotating backs or whether I'm meant to mount one on its ear and substitute shift for rise.

And a pony. I always wanted a pony.

[Richard K.]

This is totally irrelevant to your post but do you live in Perth or Adelaide? I spent 4 months in Adelaide back in '87 (but visited Perth); totally loved it! Anyway, welcome!!
BTW is the Coffee Pot still in Rundle Mall (best coffee ever!)?

[Vaughn]

Most field cameras have a back that allows you to change from landscape to portrait with ease -- keeping the orientation of the rest of the camera the same. Usually the back is square and one just takes it off and rotates it 90 degrees and puts it back on the camera body. I do have a very light (1 kilo) 4x5 that does not have a moveable back -- and it a bit of a hassle dealing with rise/fall becoming shift and all that when I photograph with the camera on its side.

Back tilt is a handy thing to have. For landscape, back rise/fall and back shift are easy to live without...and the cameras are lighter and generally tighter without them.

Going wide means that you probably will not need more than 12" (305mm) of bellows. If the camera has significantly longer bellow than that, the use of short lenses will be more difficult as one gets all that bellows scrunched up. The other option is a camera with removable bellows and the use of a bag bellows for wide lenses.

Vaughn

A lot of fun images on your site!

[polyglot]

Richard: I'm an Adelaide boy (lived there 25-odd years) but am in Perth right now. Adelaide next week, Perth a bit after that and vice-versa... too complicated. Should be be back in Adelaide permanently by 2011. Can't think of a Coffee Pot (Illy and Cibo are the locally respected joints) but then I'm not a coffee person even if my other half is an addict!

Vaughn: glad you liked 'em! A rotating back would be good and yes, 300mm bellows will be plenty for me for a while, particularly if removable. Got any suggestions for (probably metal) models I should look at? Assume I don't really want to pay for a Linhof Tech IV just yet; a $300 body and maybe $600ish lens would be more my ballpark.

thanks...

[seabird]

Assume I don't really want to pay for a Linhof Tech IV just yet...

Hi Polyglot. Welcome to the madhouse from an Australian-domiciled Linhof Tech IV-user (but Eastern seaboard).

Given your stated preference for a lens about 60mm, I think you'd be right to steer clear of a Tech IV. I find using a 90mm on my Tech IV is bad enough - shudder to think about usability of a 60mm - or if its even possible: I suspect you would need the special (= expensive) WA focussing device. Of course, my comments only apply to a Tech IV. I understand the Tech V, Master or even newer models get progressively easier to use with an ultra-wide due to continuing refinement of the basic Technika design (ratchet front rise; flap on top; extra drop bed positions etc).

All that being said, dont be put off a Technika by the price. Its a lifetime investment, and provided you aren't on your deathbed the annual amortisation cost will be negligible (least that's what I've always told my Mrs.).

Cheers

[polyglot]

I just did some looking around and suspect a Toyo Field 45 (http://www.keh.com/Product-Details/1/LF039990070170/LF03/FE.aspx) (which is this (http://www.toyoview.com/Products/45AII/45AII.html), right? though maybe not -II) would probably suit me. A Linhof may well be in my future but not just yet - I want to get a fairly cheap camera, some good optics and see how well LF suits me.

Perhaps a 65/4 Nikkor-SW (http://www.keh.com/Product-Details/1/LF060090002720/LF06/FE.aspx) or 65/4.5 Grandagon-N (http://www.keh.com/Product-Details/1/LF060090072250/LF06/FE.aspx). I'll need a recessed lens board for those, right? Will that make the lens (much) more difficult to operate?

There seem to be a bunch of no-name 4x5 film holders (http://www.keh.com/Product-Details/1/LF129990790540/LF12/FE.aspx) on the market. Are they all universally compatible or something? I see no designation in most cases that they're designed for use with a particular camera.

Are there any compatibility gotchas or n00b pitfalls I'm missing here? I can put one of those $200 DaYi 6x12 Graflok rollfilm backs on there, right?

[Vaughn]

You might talk to some of your mates there in Oz -- how do metal cameras do in the heat -- any better of worse than wood ones, for example?

Something along the lines of a Gowland 4x5 with the optional bag bellows would be nice (I have the Gowland 4x5 PocketView -- with 12.5" bellows). http://www.petergowland.com/camera/

All modern holders are compatible with all modern cameras.

[Vaughn]

Of course the perfect camera can be found right here:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=59794

Beautiful beast! (not mine and I have no connection with the seller)

Vaughn

[polyglot]

I've never used a wooden camera but worry a bit about rigidity and susceptibility to moisture/drying cycles and mechanical damage.

Metal is no problem in the heat - I can leave a hat on it if it needs to sit on a tripod in the sun for more than a few minutes; otherwise it sits in my bag. The RZ is no problem at all for example.

The pocket-view looks a bit like a monorail though... Does it pack up into a neat rectangular solid like the flatbed folding cameras?

[Vaughn]

The monorail breaks into two. Then you loosen the swings on both standards and the camera goes flat. But it is so light that one can just leave it on the tripod when walking around.

Wood has some advantages, one being that it gives and returns to its original shape, whereas metal gets and stays bent. Might even be more dimensionally stable than metal (does not expand/contract with temperature). If the wood is well seasoned and varnished, they are very durable. Rigidity is usually not a problem with modern wood field cameras -- some of the 100+ year old ones might wobble a bit.

Vaughn

[Lachlan 717]

Welcome aboard!!

I'm sometimes back in Oz (Melbourne, but in Scotland at the moment).

I, too, thought of 5x7 but then tried to find some. Seems that it's a very rare format in Oz.

8x10 is a bit easier, but then there are processing issues if you don't do it yourself. And if you're shooting slide, it's even more difficult!

So, I settled on 4x5.

If you're heading to Melbourne, get in touch if you'd like to see a camera or two.

Hope this helps!

[Shen45]

You might talk to some of your mates there in Oz -- how do metal cameras do in the heat -- any better of worse than wood ones, for example?

Something along the lines of a Gowland 4x5 with the optional bag bellows would be nice (I have the Gowland 4x5 PocketView -- with 12.5" bellows). http://www.petergowland.com/camera/

All modern holders are compatible with all modern cameras.

Hi Vaughn,
I have a 1902 [?] Kodak Empire State and a 1918 Korona. I was concerned about heat dust etc but they are both sensational cameras. The widest lens I can use is a 90mm but can also on the same camera use my 19" RD Artar. I had a Shen for quite awhile and they are a wonderful camera but the belows length was a "short" coming for me. I'm a big wooden camera fan. The older the better.

I also have a full metal Calumet long rod monorail but the metal is unpleasant in the sun. Mind you I do try to avoid the heat if I can, especially mid summer here.

[polyglot]

Thanks guys. Vaughn: I'll start having a look at wooden cameras - I'm friends with someone who has a Shen Hao 4x5 (not sure which model) and I'm sure he'll let me have a fiddle with it.

Lachlan: yeah. I'd like 5x7 because 4x5 isn't much of a step up in area over 6x7 but 5x7 film is unobtainium here, let alone enlargers or processing. Do I surmise from your username that you do 617? On a 5x7 or using the offset-back on a 4x5?

I can afford to run rollfilm in 612 (particularly because of the processing but I will need a bigger enlarger than my LPL C7700) but film prices here are so insane that I get a 60% saving by ordering from the UK and paying for it to be couriered over! I was having a laugh at some of the articles in the non-forum section of LFP and the mention of $1.50 4x5 E-6 processing - my local dip'n'dunk is $9.80.

I don't know where I'll find an LF enlarger yet either.

[Vick Vickery]

Welcome to group therepy! :) Lots of good suggestions...might partly depend what you can easily get Down Under or what it'll cost to get it there!

[polyglot]

Thanks Vick. I seem to depend on KEH for my new boys-toys[1] requirements but larger/heavier stuff is a problem with shipping.

[1] no offense to the girl-'togs around.

[Michael Wynd]

Hi Polyglot
I started out with a Nagaoka 4x5 that I picked up 2nd hand, then went to a Shen Hao 4x5. I got all except one of my lenses 2nd hand from the Camera Exchange. Schneider Angulon 90mm, Fujinon 210mm and Komura 400mm tele. Then I lashed out and bought a Tachihara 8x10 which I love using. If you're worried about weight then stick with the 4x5 gear. It's easy to get, especially on ebay, and it's light weight. I've taken my cameras into the Victorian snowfields in winter and the desert in summer and had no trouble with heat or cold affecting the cameras. Wooden cameras are also easier to find than metal ones here in Oz.
Mike

[polyglot]

Well, I shot my first two sheets this afternoon, using my friend's Shen Hao. All seemed to work fine (contrast and exposure look fine, not that I've printed them yet) but I suspect I misloaded one sheet (maybe failed to get it under the rails - the holder film-gate was not aligned with the sheet edges) so I'll have to see if it's soft with enlargement.

This whole having-a-job thing is soaking up all my photography-time in a most distressing manner. Grrr.

[Lachlan 717]

Well, I shot my first two sheets this afternoon, using my friend's Shen Hao. All seemed to work fine (contrast and exposure look fine, not that I've printed them yet) but I suspect I misloaded one sheet (maybe failed to get it under the rails - the holder film-gate was not aligned with the sheet edges) so I'll have to see if it's soft with enlargement.

This whole having-a-job thing is soaking up all my photography-time in a most distressing manner. Grrr.

Good to hear that the shutter's clicked!

Are you still considering the 60-65mm option? Very, very wide and somewhat hard to focus (dark image on the GG). I've got a 72mm that is very dark in the corners...

If you are, and you're considering a Shen Hao, have a look at one of my posts where I show my new 4x5 Shen that uses Sinar bellows and lens boards; really easy to get and use wide bellows and large recessed boards.

[polyglot]

I'd still like 65-75mm in terms of the FOV it achieves but I'm getting the impression that there are a number of technical issues with going that wide (centre filters, bag bellows, etc) that will make it hard. Might have to start with 90mm.

[Lachlan 717]

Let me know if you're heading to Melb and I can show you some different lenses in situ.

Or, if I'm heading to Adelaide with work, I can let you know and bring some kit...

[polyglot]

Well, I finally got to take a shot (http://www.brodie-tyrrell.org/pad/index.php?id=2010/05/10&full) and this week, I got my scanner back. I don't have the other neg shot at the same time but with tilt and therefore (theoretically) a focused horizon unlike this one. It was with a borrowed camera (thankyou Ervin); I still haven't got my own yet as other things are making demands on my finances and time :(

[Leonard Metcalf]

welcome, from one Australian to another....

Regards, Len

[briand]

Hi and welcombe to another Ozie,
I have a Tachihara 4x5 and I use a 65mm nikkor and am able to get a small amount of front rise and tilt, I love this little lens and is my Favorite one, its mounted on a recessed lens board,the Tachihara is a great camera as well,
hope that helps & good luck
Cheers Brian