Polarizer or Yellow-Orange filter, Guatemala

[mcfactor]

I know, I know, its is a very subjective question. But, I am going to Guatemala in April and will bring my 8x10. I usually do not use filters, but the elevation is pretty high and I will probably be spending a decent amount of time at least a couple of thousand feet up. I have a UV filter, but am trying to decide between a polarizer or a yellow orange fillter, mostly for clouds, but also for jungle shots. Any recommendations?

Thanks

[Donald Miller]

I personally do not favor a polarizer because it can and does lead to uneven tones in sky regions. I am basing this on black and white and not color film. A yellow orange filter would tend to deepen shadow values.

Donald Miller

[mcfactor]

thats good to know, i shoot both black and white and color, but obviously the yellow-orange would just be for b&w. I thought that if the polarizer darkened the skys it would be more versitile since I could use it for color too.

[Vaughn]

If you are in the jungle, the polarizer for color would be great to have. What happens is that the top surfaces of the leaves (and other surfaces like wet rocks) reflect a lot of the blue from the sky -- making those surfaces blue-green while the rest of the leaves are green. The polarizer can reduce the blue reflected light, giving a much more natural looking foliage.

For the skies, the yellow-orange would be enough (personal bias -- I dislike overly darken skies as it looks like a cheap trick after awhile). If you are using T-max films, just a yellow (or no filter) would be fine, as it has a much more even response to color than conventional films (which tend to be overly sensitive to blue) -- again with my bias to be considered.

But filters pack well and take up almost no space (they can be stored screwed into each other, also). Take a few!

And have fun!

PS...I am adding this link to a recent image posted on this forum -- great image, and you can see the effect of the reflected blue light in the leaves and rocks. If the photographer had wanted an image with a warmer feel, a polarizer would have done the trick.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showpost.php?p=561952&postcount=1017

[Phil Hudson]

At high altitudes an orange filter can be very strong on a blue sky......do you have a regular or light yellow just in case?

[mcfactor]

Interesting, i did not think about the effect of altitude on the filter strength. I also do not like overly darkened skies, so maybe a yellow would be ok. If using a yellow filter, would I use a UV at the same time?

[Phil Hudson]

No just use yellow by itself. The yellow also absorbs UV (as do most other glass filters).

[mcfactor]

This is a separate question but, do you think UV filters degrade the image to any noticable degree, Im talking a new BW multi-coated UV?

[Vaughn]

This is a separate question but, do you think UV filters degrade the image to any noticable degree, Im talking a new BW multi-coated UV?

No...and even cheap ones will not degrade the image if you habitually use a lens shade.

[cjbroadbent]

Somebody correct me if this is bad advice.
I get by outdoors with one filter, an 85c colour conversion screw-in glass filter. I use it for both B&W and Ektachrome 64T which I alway take along just in case (the tungsten film is for stopping down and making long exposures in poor daylight).
The 85c keeps black and white sky in shape without exaggeration and I am more agile outdoors with a screw-in shade. Sometime I wish it was an 85b but I can't find one the size of the 120mm SuperAngulon.

[Drew Wiley]

I dislike the effect of polarizers, but if you do take one make sure its a sealed Kasemann type so it doesn't get fogged up in a humid jungle. Apparently we have very
different definitions of high altitude. I typically carry along a multicoated UV or skylight
filter for distance shots with color film above 9000 ft or so, but rarely use it. Basically,
I'd just carry the filters you use for everyday work and not worry about it.

[Bill_1856]

Take both, along with light yellow, medium yellow, orange, medium red, green, and any others you should already have in your kit. It's not as though they weigh 10# or take up significant space, you know.

[anchored]

From a heavy user of filters (and a predominantly color film user):

I use a polarizer on most day-time images shot. Not only do they darken skies (if the angle to the sun is at or nearly over your shoulders), but they increase saturation and remove reflections on foliage. I'd definitely use one on jungle-type scenes. On B&W's I often use with an orange filter in order to get dramatic skies without having them go completely black.

Main keys to using a polarizer to best effect:

a) You don't necessarily want to dial them in all the way... at times some reflections are desired. Play close attention to the effects the polarizer makes to the scene and dial in the effect as desired. Especially true at high altitudes...

b) Be very careful using them with extra-wide lenses... they'll create vertical gradiants as the angle fades away from 90% in the sky.

c) When shooting in very high elevations, the polarization effects gain strength and can render skies black even on color film if dialed in too strongly. I have a tendency to rely more on gradiant filters when shooting at high elevations (learned this after shooting at Crater Lake and having the sky and water go completely black).

The polarizing filter is THE most important filter to be concerned with quality... there's a radical difference between brands, and in general, you do get what you pay for. A $50 filter not comparable to a $300 filter.

About using only sealed Kaseman types... not sure about this necessity even in a jungle (and they're dreadful expensive). Have never had any problems with Lee, Heliopan (non-Kaseman) or Singh-Ray polarizers fogging in very humid conditions.

About the UV filter: I personally feel it's a useless filter with the exception of providing protection to the front lens element. They will have no effect to most scenes, except when shooting with long telephotos. I only use them in harsh conditions (blowing sand or salt water environs). The skylight filter falls into basically the same category... I'll use them only for lens protection, or for slightly warming electronic flash shots.

I'd personally take a polarizer, B&W filters, and also ND grads on such a trip... leaving the skylights and uv filters at home unless needed for shooting in hostile environments.

[mcfactor]

Thanks for the responses. While I will probably be a few thousand feet up most of the time, some of the volcanos do reach 9000+ ft, so increased UV light might be an issue, which is why I bought one. I dont normally shoot with filters, so i dont already have a kit. And I'm using a Caltar 300 f/5.6, with a 86mm filter size, so the filters can be quite pricey, so i cant buy 6 different filters. I was hoping to get away with one or two more.

[Drew Wiley]

Glenn has pretty much hit the nail on the head about using polarizers judiciously rather
than blatantly. When it comes to SL filters, Singh-Ray makes different types. My biggest problem is with the current Ektachromes, which can get an annoying color shift at times at high altitude. A colorless MC UV filter seems to work for this. For black and white work or color closeups, I don't bother. On small formats a UV filter sometimes adds a little extra sharpness at distance with color films; but with 8x10 the
improvement is negligible. When packing light I carry only a 25 red and XO yellow-green filter; seems adequate for almost every circumstance.

[jeroldharter]

Don't forget that polarizers have a significant filter factor and that can be a problem if you are in rainforest areas where the light is dim to begin with.

I agree with the advice to take other filters also. I would take yellow, red, polarizer and especially GREEN. The green filter also has a significant filter factor but can be useful for lightening green foliage.