Need some help with 120mm

[dalton]

I've been shooting 4x5 for about two years, mostly with a 150mm lens and occasionally a 210. I primarily shoot landscapes, in color.

I have been looking to add a wider lens to my kit, so I just bought a 90mm Fujinon SW. It looks like a great lens, but now I am starting to think that 90mm is too wide. 120mm would probably be a better fit.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good 120mm lens? There are tons of options and information for 90mm lenses but not as much for 120. I've been searching through the archives but I am getting different answers depending on the thread.

Something lightweight would be nice, and sharp is a must. I plan on eventually blowing these images up to 40x50 some day if I can. I don't need a ton of movements but some rise, fall and tilt would be useful. My budget is somewhere around $400 although I could go a bit higher if I had to.

Right now the two lenses at KEH that seem like they might fit my needs are the 120 F5.6 Symmar-S and the 120 APO Symmar. I'm having trouble digging up specific information about either. Can anyone help?

By the way, a link to a few photos just to give an idea of the kind of things I like to shoot:
http://daltonrooney.com/photographs/tibidabo/

Thanks for any advice you might have.
Dalton

[Gem Singer]

Nikon/Nikkor f8 120SW.

Keh has one listed on their website.

Large lens. Mounted in a Copal 0 shutter. Weighs 1.34 lbs. Takes a 77mm screw-in filter, but will cover 8x10, if necessary.

Great lens.

[J. Gilbert Plantinga]

What Gem says. But if you could swing more $$ the Super Symmar 110 would really rock. Your work is really worth it, and it looks like your on your way with Humble Arts, Daniel Cooney et al.

[Warren Clark]

Hi Dalton,

I have used a Schneider 120/5.6 SS HM for several years and it is a great
lens-- also occasionally use a Schneider 120 Apo Symmar for light weight
but less coverage. I use the 110 XL mostly for 5x7 but would be excellent
for 4x5.

Good shooting

Warren Clark
Ft Collins, Colo.

[healyzh]

I'm curious, how would a Schneider Super-Angulon 8/121mm rate in this area?

[John Bowen]

Ansel used a Schneider Super Angulon 121/f8......'nuff said. The "updated" version is a 120/f8.

[dalton]

Gem, I've heard good things about the Nikkor (and my other two lenses are Nikkor), but isn't that lens quite big? I spend a lot of time on my feet, I am hoping to find something a bit more backpack friendly.

Gilbert - thanks for the nice words. I think the 110 XL is out of my budget for the near future, but it's something to look forward to!

The Schneider 120/5.6 SS HM & the Super Angulon 120/f8 both sound like contenders. I need to do some more research on the weight and coverage of those lenses.

Warren - when you say that the APO Symmar has less coverage, can you give me a practical example? I do not shoot with any extreme tilt, shifts, rise, etc, but I would like a little flexibility.

I just found Kerry Thalman's remarks on this page (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses4x5.html) about the 120 Super Symmar. That sounds like a nice balance of what I'm looking for. Does anyone know what $ those usually go for and if they ever come up for sale?

Thanks for the info so far.

Dalton

[dalton]

I just came across a reference to the Fujinon 125mm CM-W, which is also supposed to be reasonably light. Unfortunately I don't see that one for sale anywhere either.

[Sanjay Sen]

Hi Dalton,

I have a Nikkor-SW 120/8, and it is a big and fairly heavy lens. The Nikon LF lens catalog I have lists this lens at 21.5 oz (610 g).

Good luck with your search! Let us know what you settle on.


Best,
Sanjay

[Kirk Gittings]

Dalton. I am a huge fan of the Nikkor 120SW, but I don't care about size and weight. Check out this classic page by Kerry Thalman:

http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/wide.htm

[dalton]

Sanjay, thanks. That is a big lens! That definitely would not work for me.

Kirk, I have seen that page before but reading over it again I am getting some ideas. The APO Symmar and the Fujinon CM-W both sound about right.

Funny enough, the 120mm APO Symmar at KEH disappeared since I first started this thread. That's OK, I've probably got a week or so before I need to make a final decision on this 90mm Fuji.

[dalton]

Thanks for everyone who chimed in on this thread. John Clark sent me a spreadsheet with a list of specs for most modern lenses which really helped me answer my question. The Future Classics (http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/future.htm) page on Kerry Thalman's site was also very useful.

Based on the specs, I've narrowed it down to two choices

Fuji 125mm f/5.6 CM-W
Schneider 120mm f/5.6 Super Symmar HM

The Fuji 125 is my first choice based on weight and price. The Super Symmar HM a bit more expensive and a little heavier, but I would be happy to find either one of these lenses at a reasonable price.

Unfortunately neither are showing up on the used market at the moment. I'm going to keep an eye out. If nothing comes up in the next three months or so, I might just end up buying the Fuji new from Badger. It really does seem like it's exactly what I'm looking for.

The 110mm Super Symmar XL is on the list, but I think that's down the road a little ways once I can justify the price!

Thanks again for the suggestions.
Dalton

[Matus Kalisky]

I would put my word for the Fujinon CM-W 125/5.6. I have one. It is my most used lens and my sharpest too (well, may be a wash with the Fujonon A 240/9). The coverage is all I need. The lens uses rather large filters (67mm), but the advantage is that the from element is deeply recessed inside the barrel and harder to touch accidentally.

Yes - it is not easy to spot one - took me some time as well (eBay). Keep asking here around and check the keh.com. Also sending mail to Jim at midwest photo exchange (mpex.com) may be a good idea.

If you are looking for a new one, than robert white seems to be able to get you one, as well as badgergraphic.com.

[Per Madsen]

I can recommend the Schneider Apo Symmar L 120 mm.

It has a wider circle than the Schneider Apo Symmar L and is quite small.

[Per Madsen]

I can recommend the Schneider Apo Symmar L 120 mm.

It has a wider circle than the Schneider Apo Symmar and is quite small and relativly new (2002).

[Merg Ross]

I just came across a reference to the Fujinon 125mm CM-W, which is also supposed to be reasonably light. Unfortunately I don't see that one for sale anywhere either.

This is a terrific lens. It is my favorite "short" lens.

Jim Andracki at MPEX got me the Fujinon from Japan a few years ago (at the suggestion of Gem Singer). Check with Jim, he is very helpful.

[drew.saunders]

I have the pre-L 120mm APO Symmar, and it's a good sharp lens, but the coverage can be a problem. Sometimes, it can be a bit fun:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/drew_saunders/4372314436/

I used maximum front fall and some rear rise to get the image that I wanted, which caused the vignetting at the bottom. I thought it looked kind of cool, so I kept it instead of just tilting the camera down. The bellows also caused a bit of vignetting at the top.

Ideally, if I really wanted to use this FL with such extreme movements regularly, I'd get the "L" or Fuji or 110SSXL and a set of bag bellows.

I do get some vignetting for less extreme images, so I've thought about the Fuji or "L" version. I have two lenses that take 67mm filters already, so that wouldn't be such an inconvenience. It's not my most used lens, and was my first LF lens so I'll probably stick with it for now.

[Michael Graves]

I agree with the posters who praised the 120mm Nikkor. I've used one and it's beautiful. But if price is an object and you can get by with 5x7 coverage with slight movements, the Caltar II is one that is very nice. It looks, feels, smells and tastes like a Schneider, but I don't know the bloodlines of lenses the way some of the folks around here do. Someone who knows might offer an answer. I purchased one last year for $170.00 and it has become my one of my two favorite lenses for 4x5. (the other is a 210 Fujinon).

[gary mulder]

I have both a Schneider Apo Symmar L 120 mm and a Super Symmar 110 xl. Most of the time I use the apo symmar L on 4 X 5 landscape. Because it is light en small.

[Bill_1856]

My f:6.8/120mm Goerz Dagor is an excellent choice for sharpness and coverage (if you like the Dagor-look, which I do.) It is a tiny little Berlin series 3 which someone has had coated and remounted in a post-war Compur. The individual cells also work well (with less coverage) but need to be stopped well down, and refocused at the shooting aperture.

[neil poulsen]

I'm curious, how would a Schneider Super-Angulon 8/121mm rate in this area?

I have a later model, black 121mm Super Angulon that I like. It's the single-coated version of the more recent 120mm S.A. The 120mm S.A. is multi-coated.

They're good lenses and are less expensive.