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Jim Galli
16-Feb-2010, 19:50
You see the Goerz Celor f5.5 mentioned prominently in books like Abel's Professional Portrait Lightings and others.

One came available recently at a fair price, so I decided to give it a go. The photos (http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/1929_Phaeton/Phaeton_Celor.html) were done on 8X10 in setting sunlight with a 42CM Goerz Celor. Wide open mostly, although the first one was stopped well down for depth. I think it has a fine smooth look that would compete well with the competition, like the Wolly Velostigmat, or the Schneider Xenar.


http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/1929_Phaeton/Kodak_2D_Celor.jpg

The lighting would normally be difficult with contrast that would sacrifice either shadow detail or have highlights that are nasty. But the big Goerz seemed to take it all in stride. The already too contrasty Panatomic X produced negatives with a lovely range that would be easily printable. These are film scans, but I've yet to not make a better picture in the darkroom than I can with the scanner.

I think the big Goerz has well earned it's excellent reputation.

http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/1929_Phaeton/Phaeton_Celor.html

The Ford? I'm envisioning a 1940's dry lakes highboy with a hopped up Model A or B engine. Sans fenders........of course. :cool:

Jon Wilson
16-Feb-2010, 20:43
Very nice Jim. I can't wait to see more shots and your progress on you Model A. I am glad you won this lens and you are sharing the fruits. I was a click away from bidding on this lens just prior to closing....but the little voice in the back of my head was screaming....NOT ANOTHER ONE! It had only been less than a week since I had purchased my 11x14 Studio Deardorff and could not risk going to the dog house so soon. BTW, let me know if you grow tired of it.

Jon

kissssss
16-Feb-2010, 21:24
:), another giant, Jim? How nice the Ford!
Jim, you should thank the little voice in the back of Jon's head. :)

Wait to see more photos from you, Jim.
Truong

Paul Fitzgerald
16-Feb-2010, 21:44
Would love to see how the Celor matches up with a Dogmar to see why they dropped one for the other.

Love the cow bell. With a model A you might want to check out:

www.metalmeet.com/ (http://www.metalmeet.com/)

Very interesting, at least for me.

sun of sand
16-Feb-2010, 22:31
I like the 3rd photo and the distant mountains in the first

The truck has a nice "tonka/bruiser/sporty" back end
tonka only means something to me, I guess
a nice swoop

Hugo Zhang
16-Feb-2010, 22:40
Jim,

Love that car. Are you going to spin it down to LA? :)

Beautiful look from that lens too.

Hugo

Bill_1856
17-Feb-2010, 06:39
What is a Celor - a triplet?

Jim Galli
17-Feb-2010, 07:13
What is a Celor - a triplet?

Thanks all. It's a Dialyt. Like an Artar but with a large aperture. I had a Meyer I thought was pretty nice which is why I thought the Celor might be nice too.

The Dogmar and Celor are nearly identical except the Dogmar is f4.5 to the Celor f5.5.

Chauncey Walden
17-Feb-2010, 14:51
Well, I have a 1909 300mm f/6.8 Syntor - the pre-Celor and a 1924 420mm f/5.5 Dogmar but I don't have a 1929 Phaeton. I'll figure out a stand in and try them both wide open to compare with Jim's Celor. I think it will require a lot of ND! But, I could try them with Jim's Ortho/Litho at ISO 3. That should work.

Jim Galli
17-Feb-2010, 15:55
Well, I have a 1909 300mm f/6.8 Syntor - the pre-Celor and a 1924 420mm f/5.5 Dogmar but I don't have a 1929 Phaeton. I'll figure out a stand in and try them both wide open to compare with Jim's Celor. I think it will require a lot of ND! But, I could try them with Jim's Ortho/Litho at ISO 3. That should work.

I'm thinking that Dogmar is a Celor in doggie clothing. But for sure, the only way to properly make a comparison is for you to buy a 1929 Ford.

Chauncey Walden
17-Feb-2010, 17:52
Maybe when you get it fixed up you could drive it over the hill and we would have an exact comparison;-) I was just looking at the Vade Mecum and it says the Celor and Syntor were developed by Von Hoegh, the Syntor being a cheaper version as it had a smaller maximum aperture. The long, fast Celors were pushed as the portrait lens in the first decade of the 20th century. By 1914, Zschokke (after he had redesigned the Dagor in 1908) had developed the Dogmar and it was noted as sharper than the Celor and with better edge detail. It was also separable into 2x (front) and 1.5x (rear). So, it sounds like the Celor would be a better portrait type and the Dogmar a better all round lens. But, we'll see what she does wide open. What will the Phaeton do wide open?

Jim Galli
17-Feb-2010, 18:14
What will the Phaeton do wide open?

Yet to be seen. I guarantee we'll find out and a Graflex will be on hand to record. It's a runner. Stromberg 97 2 barrel.

So that's the difference then. Celor is symmetrical anastigmats and Dogmar is unsymmetrical pairs.

Steven Tribe
17-Feb-2010, 18:31
I can match your combination sometime! I too, have a yen for Fords. Mine is a German version of the Pre-war Ford A (2 seater Eifel roadster) - which is the scaled down version of the Ford A. The whole mechanics of the car has identical, but with slightly smaller components - this was Henry's model for Europe.
I have Celor around too and a 13x18 Goltz & Breutman which can carry it. But my rust patches (the car that is) were removed years ago!

Jim Galli
17-Feb-2010, 19:16
I can match your combination sometime! I too, have a yen for Fords. Mine is a German version of the Pre-war Ford A (2 seater Eifel roadster) - which is the scaled down version of the Ford A. The whole mechanics of the car has identical, but with slightly smaller components - this was Henry's model for Europe.
I have Celor around too and a 13x18 Goltz & Breutman which can carry it. But my rust patches (the car that is) were removed years ago!


Ha! Make me a picture some time please. I would love to see this car.

Glenn Thoreson
17-Feb-2010, 22:23
Jim, I don't have a Celor but I do have a Model A. Mine has more fenders than yours but no cow bell. I got a nice roof, too, and mine's a year newer with nice paint and all that. Yours, however, is much more photogenic.
It has real class. I love it! :D

Steven Tribe
18-Feb-2010, 03:01
By special request Jim! This is what the model C Eifel Roadster looks like. This is one of the few prints which has relevance to this thread. Looks like me like a model A in the reflection - Don't know about the camera though. Mine is Ivory and Black. The Eifel has a doubtful past, as the car model was used as a Recruitment staff car for the Wehrmacht in 1939-1941.

Steven Tribe
18-Feb-2010, 03:30
And if you decide on a paint job and fenders (and original wire wheels instead of "easy clean" from the 30's) this is what it would look like (almost)!
I meant model C when talking about the Eifel.

ederphoto
18-Feb-2010, 11:11
If you guys need the best auto detailer and buffer of this world, just email me. I don't have any of those cars but i know how to get it to look like a Ferrari ,paint finish speaking !
By the way,i also have a perfect condition 16" Celor .This lens is smaller than my 405mm Kodak Portrait . The Goerz Celor was the lens George Hurrell pic to replace the Verito sometime between 1930 and 1932 can't remember .Great lens,one of my kept secrets now is out for everybody to know .I knew this was coming .Thanks Jim !

Mark Sampson
22-Feb-2010, 13:32
Here's another data point. I was at the George Eastman House yesterday; they have just diplayed a print of Alfred Steiglitz' "The Steerage". Next to it they have displayed the 4x5 Graflex ol' Alfred used to make the photo. And guess what... it has an 8-1/2", f/5 Goerz Celor lens.

ederphoto
22-Feb-2010, 20:07
Great info to add to the history of this marvelous toy !