Good book for learning InDesign ?

[QT Luong]

I've been tinkering with Adobe InDesign. I managed to make a few sample pages for a photo book proposal, however I realize the need of a good tutorial. Something not geared to experienced users, not too long, illustrated with good design, and possibly relevant to bookmaking. I've looked at the beginning of an online video tutorial at http://movielibrary.lynda.com/home/DisplayCourse.aspx?lpk2=349 but I think I'd rather use a book.

Any recommendations for a InDesign book ?

[Martin Miller]

Not cheap, but I've found these tutorials get me productive much faster than learning from a book. You might still want a book for broader coverage of the details although you can generally learn how to do specific things by googling.

http://www.totaltraining.com/prod/adobe/indesigncs4_ess.asp

Depends on how much time you have to devote to it. For me inDesign is not real intuitive.

[r.e.]

When I was learning this programme about three years ago, I picked up books by the usual suspects and found myself drowning in minutiae. Then I found a book by a gentleman named Nigel French, whose book called InDesign Type: Professional Typography with Adobe InDesign CS2 was a breath of fresh air. There have been a couple of iterations of InDesign since, but this book cuts through a lot of the complexity and puts the programme in the broader context of what design is about. Here is the Amazon page: http://www.amazon.com/InDesign-Type-Professional-Typography-Adobe/dp/0321385446/ref=sr_1_36?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265846641&sr=8-36

If you want to get the best out of the programme, I strongly recommend Robert Bringhurst's The Elements of Typographic Style, which is a delightful read as well as being pretty much the bible on book design and typography: http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Typographic-Style-Robert-Bringhurst/dp/0881792063/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265847257&sr=1-1

There is also Marshall Lee's Bookmaking: Editing, Design, Production, which is very good, but focused on nuts and bolts and increasingly dated: http://www.amazon.com/Bookmaking-Editing-Design-Production-Third/dp/0393730182/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265847642&sr=1-14

[QT Luong]

Robert, thanks for the recommendation, but aren't those books focused primarily on type ? I understand type is important, but my interest is to make a photo book.

[r.e.]

They are focused on book design, and in the case of French on designing books with InDesign in particular. Bringhurst's chapters on the physical book (essentially, layout) are just plain brilliant. All of these books deal with type as an important element of design; which it is, even for books consisting of graphics or photographs. I doubt very much if you will find a text on book design that is worth reading that doesn't deal with type. For a book designer, typography is itself an important element of the graphic design, and an inescapable one, starting with the title on the cover.

[r.e.]

QT, if the only reason that you want to learn InDesign is to put together a pitch/proposal on a book, save yourself the learning curve, which is significant, and do the proposal in Word. InDesign is pointless unless you are designing.

[Jon Shiu]

Adobe InDesign Classroom in a Book is a good tutorial.

Jon

[J D Clark]

I like "Real World InDesign CS4." It has all the information needed to make a photo book.

I found the Classroom in a Book a little harder to negotiate; more of a structured tutorial, and I didn't have the patience to go through the tutorials step-by-step.

John Clark
www.johndclark.com

[QT Luong]

QT, if the only reason that you want to learn InDesign is to put together a pitch/proposal on a book, save yourself the learning curve, which is significant, and do the proposal in Word. InDesign is pointless unless you are designing.

I don't know how to use Word (besides using it to read some business documents sent to me). I don't use any Microsoft software, but I have CS3. I also may end up actually designing in a variety of scenarios.

[Kuzano]

In my experience, the first place to look is the Adobe Press books. I've often found them to be as good or better than most of the third party materials out there.

There is a book listed as a favorite for InDesign on this web page:

http://www.adobepress.com/index.asp

Also, don't overlook the Classroom in a Book titles, which are done expressly by Adobe.

http://www.adobepress.com/series/series.asp?ser=334674

I have an 80 year old, ABSOLUTELY computer illiterate client, who won't even hook up to the internet. I gave him my Adobe Press classroom in a book for Photoshop Elements 6.0. I am amazed at the progress he is making on photo editing by following the step by step instructions from the book. I'd say the Adobe Press books are definitely for beginners.

[Frank Petronio]

The skills you need for a photo book are relatively simple. Work in numbers, not by feel, and above all else, be consistent.

Once you learn how to place and scale images, determine what sorts of margins you prefer and fit a caption block. Repeat many times, exactly.

Proof and compare it to other books you like, and then go do it over again a second time with refinements.

A few (creative) annuals for book design will be enlightening, but it's hard to go wrong by leaning on a Swiss modernist minimalist direction. Make Big, Red, or Black.

That's all you need to know.

[Gordon Moat]

I will respectfully disagree with Mr. Petronio on this one. The technical aspects of boo design are simple, but the aesthetic aspects behind a truly compelling book layout are not simple. Check out CommArts Design Annual, or I.D. Annual for what they consider great book design, then go from there. If book design was easy, there would be many more award winners.

As for book tutorial recommendations, I would suggest the Visual QuickStart series from Peach Pit Press. They will allow you to get up and running quickly, and jump right into creating layouts.

http://www.peachpit.com/store/product.aspx?isbn=0321573870

Just for reference on this, I have been using InDesign since the very first launch. I have never needed to open a manual, nor text, to create whatever I needed in the application. To be fair on this, I have a great deal of Adobe Illustrator experience and used QuarkXPress prior to using InDesign, so I understood the basics of the toolsets. I was an illustrator and graphic designer prior to photography becoming my main source of income, and I still do those types of projects for select clients.

Sucky typography will detract from your images, if you are creating a photo book. Proper typography is much more than simply selecting fonts. Don't dismiss that aspect of your layout and design, even if your overall book is predominantly visual.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat Photography (http://www.gordonmoat.com)

[Armin Seeholzer]

Also, don't overlook the Classroom in a Book titles, which are done expressly by Adobe.

Yes I can also recomand them!

[Frank Petronio]

Hi Gordon,

My point is the skill - using the software - is simple.

Talent and taste aren't skills ;-)

I was attempting to point out that these tutorials and such don't really teach design, they are merely the tools.

Look at all the highly skilled photographers whose pictures still suck....

~~~

This is a nice fun smart book about type for non-typographers:

http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Stealing-Sheep-Find-Works/dp/0672485435

Stop Stealing Sheep & Find Out How Type Works by Erik Spiekermann

[r.e.]

I note that this thread on presenting photographs in books, and Sandy King's thread on using Pagemaker to reprint a book on certain photographic processes, have been allowed to stay in the main forum, but that jnanian's thread on making books of photographs was relegated to the Lounge.

It seems to me that QT's and Jnanian's thread in particular belong in the main forum. Books are just another way of presenting photographs, and there have been several threads about books printed on demand. Why not threads on how to design those books, just as there are threads on framing, etc.

I don't personally see a problem with Sandy's thread, although it is really about a technical text issue: getting a Chinese printer to print a text from an obsolete programme.

Just thought that I'd mention this for the moderator's consideration.

jnanian's thread, now relegated to the lounge: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=58778

Sandy King's thread: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=59097

[Frank Petronio]

You have to remember the mod is in New Mexico and it could be a host of things... Peyote buttons are dry now, the UFOs are flying low, you just never know....

[r.e.]

Must be the UFOs.

Something that I've noticed is that there is no independent forum for presentation of photographs. The way that the forum descriptions are written now, the apparent place is the wet darkroom forum called Darkroom: Film, Processing and Printing. The idea seems to be that wet printing includes presentation whether wet or digital. Kind of works if necessary, but maybe neither necessary nor ideal?

I wonder whether there is some point in creating a forum on presentation. It could, but need not, include internet presentation, which currently seems to come under the business forum.

Just a thought.

[gnuyork]

QT, I have been using InDesign since it first came out, back when Quark was king and nobody used InDesign. I started with the Classroom in a book, though I did not do all the lessons, just enough to get me started, then just figured out by trial what I need from the program. I do magazine layout with it, and some basic stuff like business cards, some brochures, and flyers etc.

I don't know what book currently to recommend, but feel free to e-mail with any questions and I will do my best to help out.

I am a new member here and I look forward to meeting new "friends" and learning new things relating to, mostly, LF but photography in general, as well as helping out where I can.

Best of luck,

Joe

[mcfactor]

I would consider taking a class if you really want to understand the program well. I am in the process of putting together a literary and photographic journal for print (www.cousincorinne.com (http://www.cousincorinne.com)) and we highered a designer because inDesign was simply too much to master. The relative ease with which the designer works with it has shown me the poential of the program but also made me realize how difficult it would be to learn it on my own.

[JohnnyV]

QT Luong,

What don't you like about the Lynda.com series? I prefer video tutorials than books, but everyone learns differently. Adobe's Classroom in a Book series really is the best of all the book learning.

Here's a 7-day free trial at Lynda.com:

http://www.lynda.com/promo/freepass/Default.aspx?lpk35=197