Epson V700V750 120mm6x17 holder experience?

[emo supremo]

Can someone shed light on two question?

I cut my 6x17mm chromes into three strips. Also, I've cut my 120mm 6x6 slide/negs into three frames per cut. I did this because the V750 can only scan three frames per lane (two lanes in their holder). My problem is that the V750 holder for 120 mm film only (barely) holds the edge of film that you all know has a memory to curl, hence making it almost impossible for it to lay flat. It's next to impossible to get the thin bits of film in. Buy cloth gloves. Trust me. You'll need them.

Question 1: Antinewton ring glass or new holder, which would you choose? Betterscanningcom's holder has (i'm told) separate locks placed by the user between the 2nd and 3rd frames (for 6x6) that hold the filmstrip in the holder flat. Their solution is "better" according to users but because it too is plastic shouldn't durability of snapping plastic parts together be my concern? Does it really makes sense to purchase their holder and pour naptha-containing, plastic corroding Kami fluid on it.
Has anyone experience using their antinewton ring glass used to hold down 120mm 6x17mm landscape-format negatives?

Question 2: Surely Epson must have some way of making film sit flat in their holder. Epson could not have overlooked so flagrant a design flaw. Was my V750 shipped without the parts that hold the curvey film flat? What am I doing wrong? Or better, what should I do?

[Kuzano]

It seems to me that Epson does not put a lot of value into actually creating quality film holders for 35mm and particularly MF (120/220) as an indicator that they do not actually consider the use of their flat bed scanners as competitive in the arena of scanning for those two formats. Some of this decision may come from multiple factors:
1) dedicated film scanners in these two formats that do much better than flat beds
2) the actual cost of providing quality (rather than Crap) film holders
3) the availability of third party holders from other sources
4) A consideration that the majority of people purchasing the product are not even scanning film
5) the impossibility that they could compete with drum and other more professional scan services for high quality output.
6) the fact that they have used essentially the same film holders through the history of 3-4 generations of flatbed scanners.

It would be shocking to me to see Epson actually supply quality film holders with their product. Even though the V750 is purported to be "Professional", it hardly qualifies as a truly professional product line, particularly as a result of that one Glaring Deficiency. Could it be that they know that given the best film holders possible, people would simply find other deficiencies when comparing scans to dedicated services and devices.

Epson scanners are adequate for the market they serve, but they are still "consumer" level devices, aimed at a broad market of scanning, copying and email needs. The price is an indication of that decision on their part.

Like the old saying goes, "You can't get there from here". So it goes, "You can't get the quality you are looking for, for the amount of money you have chosen to spend."

[David Hedley]

The only film I have had a curl problem with is Adox 25; you need two extra hands to get the film into the Epson holder.

Other than this, I find that Kodak (TMax), Ilford (Delta 100) and Fuji (Velvia & Astia) fit well into the standard Epson holder, and that the resulting 6x17 scans from a V700 are of good quality. I don't doubt that they could be bettered, but they're fine for my (non-commercial) needs, and I haven't felt the need to look for different film holders.

I don't follow when you say 'I cut my 6x17mm chromes into three strips'; you should get four frames on a 120 roll, and I wouldn't contemplate cutting an individual frame into three sections and then restitching using software - just scan the entire frame. You may need to alter a setting in your scanning software to do this.

[Paul O]

You MUST get a Betterscanning Mounting Station! The improvement over the Epson holders is massive!
First thing I did when I got my V700 was order a Mounting Station - useable with all formats up to 5x7 but less than 10x8; and then also got a 120 format holder with Anti-Newton Glass insert. The negatives are held perfectly flat and there is no chance of them bowing.

[77seriesiii]

On film curling almost all of the Efke, rollei, foma films curl like mad. On the better scanning product with these curly films, lots of aggravation. some of the films curl so strongly they actually pop the film holders out of the tract of the better scanning plastic tray. Wife, Medium format (started with MF but thought better :p ) shooter hated any film that curled. Now its no longer an issue as the scanner is taking a dirt nap and we are in the process of upgrading to something...

./e

[emo supremo]

I wanted to share with you a book I picked up in the library that came out in 2007 and I found it helpful trying to learn about this on my own:

Scanning negatives and slides : digitizing your photographic archives by Sascha Steinhoff.

Thank you for your opinions on this frustrating issue.
Apologies to DH for the three, which is of course typed "four" on all keyboards cept mine.
Kuzano is right but, then again, but I'm afraid the spouse has reached some sort of limit in her head (beyond which it becomes necessary to sneak stuff into the house). I need only my best work on the drum scanner.

[Thebes]

With my 4490 I have to shim much of my 120 and 35mm roll film, letting it curl towards the scanner bed and using nylon washers as spacers. I remove the spacers from the image by scanning twice, moving them between scans, stitching the image in PS.

Sometimes, I guess because I live in a dry climate, I find I have to breath on negatives to humidify them enough I can load them into the holder... otherwise they are just too curled to load. This happens mostly with 35mm which often pops the Epson 4490 holder open.

The Epson holders are junk. If I ever purchase a more expensive Epson scanner I will factor a real holder or two from betterscanning into my cost vs value decision. At what I paid for the 4490 I can feel good about the fiddling rather than curse at it... if I paid 600 bucks I'd be pretty upset about it. Putting little nylon washers under the corners of my 4x5 negs, and moving and stitching the negs, is often easier than scanning mf rollfilm with the included holder.

[dave_whatever]

My experience of the epson 120 film holders (when I've borrowed a V700 for a few weeks) is its a total lottery if you get a sharp scan due to the film flatness. If the planets are in alignment then you can get a decent scan, but its hard to do. I'm amazed they sell these scanners like this where to get the most out of it you apparently have to buy a seperate holder - its like selling a car that only comes with square wheels as standard. Having said that, its the same story if you use a Nikon 8000, but at least Nikon do actually make a better holder themselves.

P.S. what is 120mm film? ;-)

[mandoman7]

I like the scanner better for larger negatives, and shoot those more for that reason. For the occasional scan of old 120 negs, however, I've had success with placing the negatives on the bed surface and placing a sheet of glass over that to hold it flat, then selecting that portion of the viewing area in the software options.

Its a compromised situation on several levels, but takes a fraction of the time that it would to do a drum scan, and makes a decent 8x10 for review purposes.

[rguinter]

...I cut my 6x17mm chromes into three strips.

I think you really mean 6x17 cm. A typo?... or something else.

Yes I have the Epson 4990 scanner and I use the holders provided. Of course, like all the other posters, I would have preferred better holders but I really haven't had all that much trouble with the OEM ones.

I did however construct a dedicated 6x17-cm holder of my own. I made it out of the heavy board from one of those inexpensive 3-hole thesis binders. You know the cheap ones with the bendable metal straps. I cut the binder cover to fit the platten and put the 6x17-cm cutout vertically in the scanner's sweet spot. I then over-laid the cutout with a heavy plastic sheet cut smaller to hold the film edges. All this held together like a two page book with a cutout. If anyone wants to see it just PM me and I'll shoot a photo and send it.

Anyway I occasionally have trouble with several of the films curling like the other posters noted: e.g., Efke, Rollei, and some of the chromes. But I use plastic archival sleeves for storage and if the curl is really bad I simply curl the film (inside the sleeves) backwards for a day or two in a heavy magazine. Spindle the magazine with the film sleeve inside and hold it with a couple of rubber bands.

Anyway this cheap solution has seemed to work for all but the very worst curly film.

For my purposes all this seems to work well. For some of my work I will spring for drum scans someday but prints out to 30-inches look pretty good to my eye and I haven't needed to upgrade to better scans.

Regards. Bob G.

[D. Bryant]

Can someone shed light on two question?

I cut my 6x17mm chromes into three strips. Also, I've cut my 120mm 6x6 slide/negs into three frames per cut. I did this because the V750 can only scan three frames per lane (two lanes in their holder). My problem is that the V750 holder for 120 mm film only (barely) holds the edge of film that you all know has a memory to curl, hence making it almost impossible for it to lay flat. It's next to impossible to get the thin bits of film in. Buy cloth gloves. Trust me. You'll need them.

Question 1: Antinewton ring glass or new holder, which would you choose? Betterscanningcom's holder has (i'm told) separate locks placed by the user between the 2nd and 3rd frames (for 6x6) that hold the filmstrip in the holder flat. Their solution is "better" according to users but because it too is plastic shouldn't durability of snapping plastic parts together be my concern? Does it really makes sense to purchase their holder and pour naptha-containing, plastic corroding Kami fluid on it.
Has anyone experience using their antinewton ring glass used to hold down 120mm 6x17mm landscape-format negatives?

Question 2: Surely Epson must have some way of making film sit flat in their holder. Epson could not have overlooked so flagrant a design flaw. Was my V750 shipped without the parts that hold the curvey film flat? What am I doing wrong? Or better, what should I do?

The betterscanning holders will solve all of your problems. Epson makes dog poop holders, that's why the betterscanning holders were invented.

I would suggest purchasing the Betterscanning product that you need and see for yourself. They are durable and not flimsy pieces of crap like Epson holders and are unaffected by the Kami fluid.

In short you aren't missing any parts from Epson - their holders really suck.

Don Bryant