highly diluted HC110 question

[Ben Calwell]

I can't sort this out in my head. In terms of ounces, what would be the equivalent dilution of HC110 1:31 from the stock solution if I wanted to arrive at the same dilution using the syrup straight from the bottle?
I would need enough total solution to submerge one sheet of 5x7 in an 8x10 tray. This would be for extended development with much reduced agitation.
Thanks in advance for your advice.

[cjbroadbent]

...what would be the equivalent dilution of HC110 1:31 from the stock solution if I wanted to arrive at the same dilution using the syrup straight from the bottle? ...
One laxative measure (30ml) of HC110 syrup into a 1 liter bottle of water (30+970 = 1:32).
Half a paper cup of the solution for each 4x5. One paper cup (150ml) for each 5x7.
You would find it difficult to measure 4.8ml syrup for the 150ml paper cup. Why bother.
Here's what I did last night with same, on the kitchen sink.

[Joe Smigiel]

I can't sort this out in my head. In terms of ounces, what would be the equivalent dilution of HC110 1:31 from the stock solution if I wanted to arrive at the same dilution using the syrup straight from the bottle?
I would need enough total solution to submerge one sheet of 5x7 in an 8x10 tray. This would be for extended development with much reduced agitation.
Thanks in advance for your advice.

Ben,

First, are you sure you aren't confusing the stock solution, syrupy concentrate and Dilution B?

Dilution B is 1+31 from the thick syrupy concentrate or 1+7 from the stock solution.

The stock solution is 1+3 from the syrup concentrate.

So, in 4 ounces of stock there is 1 ounce of concentrate.
In 32 ounces of stock, there would be 8 ounces of concentrate + 24 ounces of water.
In 32 ounces of dilution B there would be 1 ounce concentrate + 31 ounces water or 4 ounces stock + 28 ounces water (=1+7 from stock).

So, if you do indeed want to dilute the equivalent of 1+31 from stock using a measure straight from the concentrate:
take 4 ounces of stock solution (which would contain 1 ounce of concentrate) and add that to 124 ounces of water to get 128 ounces of very dilute developer. That would be the same as taking 1 ounce of the syrupy concentrate and adding it directly to 127 ounces of water. However, Kodak doesn't list a 1+127 dilution from concentrate (or 1+31 dilution from stock) in their Technical Publication J-24 (http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:rwRjVj5cXugJ:www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j24/j24.pdf+hc110+developer+dilution&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a).

[Curt Palm]

I think Ben wants a 1:31 dilution from the stock solution which is already diluted from the syrup. And wants to make the working developer without having to go through making the stock solution. If this assuption is correct:
The stock solution is a 1:3 dilution 1 part HC100 3 parts water, so it it 1/4 strength of the syrup. His working developer is 1/32 strength of the stock, so his working developer is 1/128 strength of the syrup. this is a 1:127 dilution, 1 part syrup , 127 parts water. A syringe works well for me for measuring and transferring the syrup.

[EdWorkman]

And you didn't believe your teachers in Algebra, you said why am I here I'll never use this stuf

[HMG]

Various dilutions (plus a lot of other info on HC-110) here: http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

Dilutions are about midway down the page.

[Drew Wiley]

There's a bit of a trick in doing this degree of dilution directly from the syrupy stock.
I use a small polymethypentene graduate which seems less resistant to the syrup sticking than acrylic or polyethylene graduates. And I always save some of the dilution water for several rinses of any developer concentrate left in the graduates, giving a gentle swirl each time.

[cjbroadbent]

I think Ben wants a 1:31 dilution from the stock solution which is already diluted from the syrup....
Curt has probably got it right. The Amphoto Data Guide says - " ... Working solutions can be prepared direcly from concentrate, or from a stock solution that is prepared by mixing one part concentrate with three parts water ..." then, "when working from stock solution ... dilution B is 1:7", (1:31 is dilution B on the usage sheet).

[Ben Calwell]

Yes, I want to duplicate the same highly diluted HC110 that Ansel Adams refers to in his book "The Negative," which he mixes, 1:31, from the STOCK solution, but using the thick syrup from the bottle.
Thanks again

[VictoriaPerelet]

I pretty much exclusively use HC110 for b/w. My permanent hc110 bookmark:

An Unofficial HC110 Resource Page (http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/)

[Ben Calwell]

It looks like maybe dilution G from syrup would come close to what I want to use.

[BetterSense]

Here's a question...must I mix up the syrup in a separate container first, or is anyone brave enough to just squirt the concentrate in the developing drum/daylight tank and fill it with tap water? I think the stuff mixes pretty fast, but I'm not quite brave enough to try in-tank mixing.

[Drew Wiley]

Are you kidding???? The concentrate has the consistency of honey. Try pouring that
into your drum and see how fast it disperses!

[Chuck P.]

Like many I'm sure, I use a syringe and extract enough for a 1:119 dilution in my Combi-plan tank with 36 ounces of water. It amounts to 9ml of syrup per 36 ounces of water---with my process and TMX rated at EI50, I can get an N-3 compensating effect with this combination.

The thing with using a syringe is it's easier to ensure that all the syrup is completely used. I have found that when I inject the syrup into the water, I just draw water into the syringe and then push it back out multiple times to essentially rinse the syrup from the inside surface of the syringe.

[Heroique]

Are you kidding???? The concentrate has the consistency of honey.

Thanks to that viscosity, I no longer prepare "working" solution straight from the syrup. Instead, I prepare the intermediate "stock" solution to store in 1 or 2 one-liter containers. This likely puts me in the minority here; but I typically only tray-process 4 or 6 sheets per infrequent session.

(Kodak's chart (http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/e103cf/e103cf.pdf?id=0.1.16.14.30.14.7.14.16&lc=en) says the stock solution stays good for 6 months in a full, air-tight container.)

Then at darkroom time, I'll mix the "working" solution (most often "B").

Just my personal preference to avoid mixing thick syrups as long as I can... ;)

[mikebarger]

Using the baby syringe method, I don't know how mixing anything could be easier than HC110 straight from the bottle.

I draw out 10ML and squirt it into 1100ML water, stir and go. I do refill the syringe while it's still in the 1100ML and squirt it back out for a rinse. Doesn't get any easier.

Mike

[Joe Smigiel]

Maine Photographic Workshops used to recommend a stock solution made 1+9 from the HC-110 concentrate. That way there would be 1 ounce developer concentrate in 10 ounce stock (or 10ml concentrate in 100ml stock, etc). A 16 ounce bottle of concentrate made 160 ounces of the 1+9 stock. (That fits in a 5-liter bottle.) This is a lot less viscous than the concentrate and can be easily measured. To get various dilutions quickly you could just add water as follows:


1 part (1+9) stock + 6 parts water = 1 part concentrate + 15 parts water (dilution A)
1 part (1+9) stock + 10 parts water = 1 part concentrate + 19 parts water (dilution C)
1 part (1+9) stock + 22 parts water = 1 part concentrate + 31 parts water (dilution B)
1 part (1+9) stock + 30 parts water = 1 part concentrate + 39 parts water (dilution D)
1 part (1+9) stock + 38 parts water = 1 part concentrate + 47 parts water (dilution E)
1 part (1+9) stock + 70 parts water = 1 part concentrate + 79 parts water (dilution F)

1 part (1+9) stock + 118 parts water = 1 part concentrate + 127 parts water [Ben's desired 1+31 dilution from Kodak's normal (1+3) stock solution]