Big shutter help [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

Steve Hamley

28-Jan-2010, 08:26

Luc made one that was 100mm, but they're rare compared to the smaller ones. Your best bet for an external shutter is probably to adapt a Packard to the front.

Cheers, Steve

Steven Tribe

28-Jan-2010, 08:30

I am in the same dilemma with my big softies. ND filters (sheets bought from lighting companies) must be the way to go to retain the wide aperture effect. Meanwhile, I am doing the adaptation process with a sinar/copal shutter.

cjbroadbent

28-Jan-2010, 09:08

...Meanwhile, I am doing the adaptation process with a sinar/copal shutter.
Saw that. Pretty good. In fact Silens are external. My biggest two are 80mm. The Suter is on a Sinar board which fits Gandolfi (just). Perhaps an ND filter won't degrade the lens worse than smoke from two wars.
Where can I see a large Packard?

Jim Bradley

28-Jan-2010, 09:21

Packards are still being made :
http://www.packardshutter.com/

also they come up on ebay regularly

Jim

cjbroadbent

28-Jan-2010, 09:38

Packards are still being made :
http://www.packardshutter.com/
also they come up on ebay regularly
Jim
Thanks Jim. I didn't know they were still made.

Emil Schildt

28-Jan-2010, 13:19

Arne Croell

28-Jan-2010, 13:42

This could also be a solution: a big "Zettor" shutter.

it is a nice BIG thingy....

EDIT: Can't upload images it seems.. the next sentence left for the images when they (hopefully) appear...

on the second image, you can see an "adaptor", that can be changed to a bigger size if needed.
I have had two of these, but unfortunately I sold the one before I realized the backs was smaller in this one....:o

this one has a maxium of 12cm opening (which will be smaller when the adapter is in, and the shown one has an opening of 8.5cm
If you're not familiar with them, Zettor shutters were made by Voigtländer, and were mounted in front of the lens. They had 4 positions, continuously open (O), continuously closed (S), the B setting (Z on their scale), and manual (M), one instant time. The M timing depends somewhat on how fast you depress the release.

eddie

28-Jan-2010, 14:51

i am going to make a video of this so i can just link to it......

i use a "focal plane" shutter i make out of a piece of black matte board. i cut different sized slits in different boards. then i just pull the slit in front of the lens. smaller the slit. fast the shutter speed. i try and pull it consistently and then just change the slit size.

i tried it on my shutter speed tester the other day and it was very very easy to be consistent.

best part is it is almost free.

only other idea is just use strobes. we have all seen Christopher's photos so we know he is alighting master.....:) i use my hat. hi the strobes. replace hat.

video coming soon.

eddie

edit: PS love the lens...i want one! i have a nice collection of some beautiful aplanats. 19 and 25 inch. the 19 is complete. both with serial numbers bellow 2991. i also have a petzval i just got......i need to go shoot it.

cjbroadbent

28-Jan-2010, 17:01

...i use a "focal plane" shutter i make out of a piece of black matte board. ...
Have you solved the problem of holding the board in place while you remove the dark slide?
I didn't renew my strobes last year so no more f45 for smoke, steam and people.
I'd like to put the Suter to work at f6.3.

eddie

28-Jan-2010, 17:18

Have you solved the problem of holding the board in place while you remove the dark slide?
I didn't renew my strobes last year so no more f45 for smoke, steam and people.
I'd like to put the Suter to work at f6.3.

most of the time i use lenses short enough to enable me to use one hand for the darkslide and the other for the "shutter" board. 14 -16 inch lenses at portrait distance on 5x7 is easy and still doable on 8x10. i stretch a bit with the 18 inch lenses.

if your lens has a diameter of 4 inches i use a piece of board about 5-6 inches tall and 10-12 long. i have it a bit long so you have some "braking" you would hate to pull it right off the other end.

i will cut some cards and do some tests to see how fast i can get it to go. it was really easy to get 1/60. i had it up to 1/200 if i remember correct...alll using an 1/8 inch slot.

it is very repeatable as well.

eddie

Emil Schildt

29-Jan-2010, 07:44

here are (hopefully) the images of the Zettor..

cjbroadbent

29-Jan-2010, 17:21

Thanks for posting pictures of the Zettor. It look just like my too-small Silens.
I took a Silens to pieces yesterday, iris leaves and all. The works are cunningly simple and the screws minute. It's a watchmakers job.
I'm getting info from Pakard for a front mounted shutter.

Carsten Wolff

30-Jan-2010, 09:45

...if everything else fails/ you want more shutter speeds than the Packard offers, you could also find an old Speed-Graphic, perhaps an incomplete/as-is type, as long as it has a working focal plane shutter; you could front mount that and even use it as a matte box/gel holder.... all gets a bit top-heavy though....

Steven Tribe

30-Jan-2010, 12:09

My experience tells me that the chances of finding an incomplete/as is speed graphic with a complete and working shutter with OK curtains is very slight! The demise of the shutter - followed by fixing attempts - is usually the reason they become "as-is" models.

Paul Ewins

30-Jan-2010, 15:32

Actually Steven it isn't as hard as you think, since a lot of later speeds get robbed of their graflok back for reasons that don't quite make sense (there can't be that many people building 4x5 cameras or converting old Super D or Series D SLRs). After buying three "junk" Speed Graphics I finally got one that was truly shot and could be converted to a front shutter. The other two were just missing a part here and there and were quickly resuscitated. All three had perfect working shutters. The old SLRs (and not just Graflex ones) almost always have dead shutters, maybe because they tend to be 20-30 years older than the Speed Graphics I buy.

Emil Schildt

30-Jan-2010, 16:39

I read this thread again, and seeing the suggestions on the Packard shutter, I wondered ehat camera you're fitting this to.

I have an old studio camera, and behind the front panel, there is a big, nice working shutter, made by NORKA (NORdic KAmera). A barn door system, working with a long extension cord with a bulb.

I have done many images with this, and it is working as a charm...

If interested, I can make some images of this shutter.....

cjbroadbent

30-Jan-2010, 17:18

Gandolfi, It would be great if you could do a shot of the Norka shutter. Recycling seems to be the way to go.

Emil Schildt

30-Jan-2010, 17:36

Gandolfi, It would be great if you could do a shot of the Norka shutter. Recycling seems to be the way to go.

will do - but I have to sleep first....

Jim Graves

30-Jan-2010, 21:56

Another possibility is Ron Tichner's front mounted shutter ... one of the participants at the Tonopah workshop was using one ... worked great and it allows for different speeds (unlike the Packard.) Another advantage is that the shutter just slides on and off of the lens. Clearly, one downside would be shooting in any wind ... the shutter has a pretty big profile.

A link to Tichner's post on this forum about the shutter is here [you'll have to scroll down after the page loads] : Link (http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/00SxJQ)

Here are 2 other links ... the first to a shot of the Tonopah camera with the shutter attached and the second to a picture taken with the shutter at the workshop:
Link 1 (http://www.apug.org/forums/groups/tonopah-nevada-picture3333-camera-justice-tonopah-style-judge-jury-executioner.html)
Link 2 (http://www.apug.org/forums/members/don12x20-albums-tonopah-picture2760-per-volquartz-420mm-cooke-soft-set-2-5.html)

Steven Tribe

31-Jan-2010, 02:44

Paul, I just don't dare take the risk with speed graphic! I think about 98% of all graflex cameras are still in the USA. Europe had their own focal plane press shutter cameras. That, coupled with the high postage ( which must also apply to downunder too), and the minimum duty payable (large administration/handling fee plus variable VAT - also payable on shipping costs) more than doubles the real price of cheap as-is items. But, compared with other focal plane shutters I have looked with similar ages, the graflex design is simple, long lasting, easy to fix and comparatively slim - so I understand the interest.

Emil Schildt

31-Jan-2010, 07:54

here are the (really bad, sorry :o ) images of the NORKA shutter.

cjbroadbent

31-Jan-2010, 17:06

Thanks Gandolfi. The Norka looks like a great idea. Something similar would work also on the front of the lens. I'm going to search around.
But where do you put the cheese?

Steven Tribe

5-Feb-2010, 08:50

And this what the Norka shutter looked like in the 1934 catalogue. Made in 4 different sizes.

cjbroadbent

8-Feb-2010, 01:48

Since then found this (http://www.suaudeau.eu/memo/Les_obturateurs/Les_obturateurs_centraux/Histoire/Les_obturateurs.html). Here's a page:

Steven Tribe

8-Feb-2010, 02:29

And some suitable candidates from 1910.

Emil Schildt

8-Feb-2010, 05:19

And some suitable candidates from 1910.

I have the guerry shutter.
fine craftmanship, but a problem to use, at the lid makes the lens/camera move quite easily...

I took the liberty to lighten your image, Steven.
Easier reading.

hope it is ok.

emil

Steven Tribe

8-Feb-2010, 05:56

Emil Schildt

8-Feb-2010, 09:17

Thanks Emil! I am very busy with the cementing do-it-yourself epistle and my standards have fallen a lot and 30cm of snow on the rooflights doesn't help either!
You don't, by the way, have a good photo of the Simon/Dutch plasticca to send to CCHarrison do you?

no problem.

I can take some photos og the lenses if he would like me to - no problem either..

(And I can ask my friend that has the Kronar to make pictures too if needed..)

Ernest Purdum

9-Feb-2010, 11:09

The Norka shutter is very similar to "silent" shutters sold in the U.S.A. by Conley and perhaps others. There was also a simpler version with only one wing. They show up on eBay fairly often but should you buy one at distance, it would be a good idea to offer to pay for professional packaging since the wings are very susceptible to damaged in shipment.

Assuming you have a large enough lensboard to use one, and the condition is good, they work fairly well.

cjbroadbent

9-Feb-2010, 15:47

The Norka shutter is very similar to "silent" shutters sold in the U.S.A. by Conley and perhaps others....
I ordered a clapped-out 3.5" Curry Silent Shutter from PacificRim - to have something to copy. It looks like a better mousetrap. The Guerry is the nicest of all with just tapes and the wooden strip.

Steven Tribe

11-Dec-2010, 07:13

An old thread - but a good one!
I have just got hold of the big Guerry (version 2 in the table posted by Christopher) with just a mere 6" diameter opening - big enough for the 24" Plasticca!
I thought I would some kind of comparison between the Ilexpo, Grundner and Guerry (timewise) when I have some time this winter.

Louis Pacilla

11-Dec-2010, 08:37

Hi Christopher

I don't know if anyone pointed out how it's easy to front mount a Packard.

I took a Eastman Kodak (wood) square filter holder which has an adjustable back for mounting on lenses with different diameters . Attach Packard to the other side & BANG. your done. works on most all my mid size lenses. I added a photo of Packard on my 4D

There are plenty of clever Packard shutter boxes out on there. Some have a front board that is cut out for each lens you use it on. This board slides to a tight bond on front of lens then the Packard box slides onto this board. Just do a search for design ideas.

I think the problem with the Silent Flap shutters are the rubber vacuum piece is usually bunk & almost impossible to fix. Just what my memory tells me. I've never tried a flap shutter. Mostly because of this warning to avoid.

Steven Tribe

11-Dec-2010, 09:07

Louis Pacilla

11-Dec-2010, 10:28

Hey Steven

Not sure about other flap shutters. The Curry Silent Brand(the one Christopher posted above) is the only flap shutter I've been waved off of. I also imagine that a solution for a work around would not be very difficult.

I'll be interested in checking your new shutter out. Also if you need to find a work around for dried vacuum cylinder (if it has one like the Curry Silent brand), what you did to get it working.

Thanks for the warning Louis - I have just bought two Guerrys!
I am prepared to find a modern solution IF the mechanism is beyond repair. Perhaps even a modern equivalent with available parts that can be front mounted?

Emil Schildt

12-Dec-2010, 05:05

Thanks for the warning Louis - I have just bought two Guerrys!
I am prepared to find a modern solution IF the mechanism is beyond repair. Perhaps even a modern equivalent with available parts that can be front mounted?

Hi Steven.
the pneumatic bulp in the homemade BIG shutter (thread here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=62128&highlight=big+shutter) (and see image) was made with one of the utensils often used in a darkroom... The little air blowers with hair on the end of a tube... (don't know the english word for it, sorry..)

My student cut away the brush part, and then it worked like a charm....

image: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=40317&d=1273136705