Will this work for Brass Lenses?

[Richard K.]

I got Brass in pocket...

Yes, I'm just starting the long strange trip of collecting and USING a few old Brass lenses. It occurs to me (sharp as a noodle I am) that modern film sensitivity precludes reasonably accurate useage of the "cap as shutter" method and one must either use some kind of shutter or photograph darklyish.These lenses are likely to come with a variety of flange sizes. Mounting them into individual modern shutters would be expensive as well as an affront to my sensibility. So, perhaps a Packard? My thought is to take the largest flange in any future small collection of Brass lenses, mount it on a board and mount a Packard behind. One could then (could one then?) simply make adapter rings to mate flanges of the smaller lenses to the mounted big flange and proceed to use the Packard. The smaller lenses would be stored with the flange to flange adapter mounted on them.

What do you think?

What speed(s) is(are) available with the Packard? I thought I saw a Packard web site mentioned a little while ago?

Am I right in assuming that any rack and pinion focus found on a Brass lens is now just decorative? Or do some of you use it for fine focussing?

Thank you for your thoughtful and nuanced replies! :)

[BarryS]

A Packard box with interchangeable lens boards is helpful, although the shortest shutter speed is still only ~1/20 sec for Packard with instantaneous mode. I use a combination of neutral density filters and very slow films--including ortho lith film. The big brass lenses also try to draw you into wet plate--all you need is a hat or a lens cap. Sometimes, I use rack and pinion focusing for fine focus adjustments--it's not necessarily a conscious decision, it just might be easier to grab than the front standard focus knob.

[GSX4]

I use a Packard in front of my brass lenses for use on my Chamonix 4x5. It works quite well, but the shutter speed is basically fixed at Bulb, and 1/25 of a second (if you use the instant shuuter feature some of the packards have) As only one of my lenses has provision for waterhouse stops, shooting wide open can be problematic even with slow film. So I made a cokin 'pro' filter holder fit on the front of the packard with gaffa tape and that allows me to slot in ND filters as needed to 'manage' exposure. It gives me a bit more flexibility, but you must manage flare well with filters on the front, or it can bite you!

As for the rack and pinion focusing on the rectilinear lens I have AND the petzvals, it can be useful... Especially for chamonix users as it means I can switch lenses without having to switch front standard positions.

[Jim Graves]

http://www.packardshutter.com/

Still manufacturing in Plymouth, California ... a very small town in the foothils and wine country about 50 mi. east of Sacramento

[Richard K.]

Would an Acme #5 shutter surface mounted on a lens board work as the OP (me :o ) suggested, with flange adapter rings for lenses smaller than the diameter of the Ilex shutter?

I realize that this limits collecting Brass lenses to just under 3" diameter or less - would that allow for some interesting examples in the 7 - 19" range?

[BarryS]

Would an Acme #5 shutter surface mounted on a lens board work as the OP (me :o ) suggested, with flange adapter rings for lenses smaller than the diameter of the Ilex shutter?

I realize that this limits collecting Brass lenses to just under 3" diameter or less - would that allow for some interesting examples in the 7 - 19" range?

For small Petzvals, I use an Alphax #4 shutter with an adapter ring I cut from foam core board. The smaller diameter lenses get some gaffers tape wrapped around the end of the barrel so they fit the adapter. Not the most elegant, but it works well.

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/4355/chamonixwpetzval2138rb3.jpg

[Richard K.]

For small Petzvals, I use an Alphax #4 shutter with an adapter ring I cut from foam core board. The smaller diameter lenses get some gaffers tape wrapped around the end of the barrel so they fit the adapter. Not the most elegant, but it works well.

Excellent! Thanks Barry. What is the opening on the Alphax 4? Is it bigger or larger than the Ilex #5? Which is the better shutter?

[Mark Sawyer]

A Speed Graphic with a focal plane shutter is one popular solution for 4x5, or if you spend a bit more, 5x7. Those offer a wide range of shutter speeds, up to 1/1000.

Neutral density filters and slower films, especially in combination, are effective solutions too.

If you want the look of the old blue-sensitive films and plates, there are still some orthochromatic graphic arts films that have ISO's of 1 or 2, and they have the added advantage of being loaded and processed under safelights.

[Hugo Zhang]

Richard,

I have a Packard shutter box built by Don Dozer with a Packard #6 in and it will take Kodak 2D boards which I mount most of my old brass lenses. I also have an uinversal iris with 4" hole wounted on a board which will take any barrel lenses that don't have a flange and have a rear diameter less than 4".

The shutter box is not pretty to look at and works great. :)

There is another option: there is a posting in New Products section by Ron Lee for his Slip On Focal Plane Shutter. It's an intersting idea.

[BarryS]

The front thread of the Alphax #4 is 62mm, so it's smaller than the Ilex#5. I just happened to get the Alphax in an inherited junk box, so that's what I used. The bigger shutters would give you more options, but if the lenses get too heavy, you'd need "real" adapters. Any good sized shutter would work fine.

[Lachlan 717]

Richard,

Have a look at this Thread:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=57638&highlight=Shen

It's what I've done to make using brass/barrel lenses quick, easy and accurate.

Whilst you mightn't need the camera, the shutter and iris combination might be an option.

[Steven Tribe]

Back to the original posting!
"simply make adapter rings to mate flanges of the smaller lenses to the mounted big flange"
Unless you have free access to a skilled machinist + equipment this is not a realistic option. Even if there had been standardised threads.

I am going the way of using a sinar copal shutter (with the possibility of mounting internal ND filters) - the norma type without the patent diaphram adjustment. I mount using flanges to copies of sinar boards plus the copal sinar shutter. This shutter is then attached to a standard double lens board. The one pointing forward is, of course, another sinar size, whilst the next - at a distance to allow fitment in grooves/clips - could be a Cambo board.

So this would look like:

Ancient brass lens- flange of ancient brass lens - sinar board with maximum hole - built slot for ND and copal shutter - sinar board with maximum hole/distance piece/alternative lens board with maximum hole.

[Gordon Moat]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=43976

I posted a solution to this type of problem just over a year ago. There are some pics of my ancient brass lens set-up in that thread.

[Lachlan 717]

Richard,

Have a look at this Thread:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=57638&highlight=Shen

It's what I've done to make using brass/barrel lenses quick, easy and accurate.

Whilst you mightn't need the camera, the shutter and iris combination might be an option.

I forgot to mention that this set up also allows flash/strobe use.

[Armin Seeholzer]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=40730&highlight=Sinar+shutter+cameras

In this one we did it about a year ago;--)))

Cheers Armin

[Steven Tribe]

Thanks Armin, - I have just looked through it. Seems like copar sinar doesn't have many drawbacks. You seem to have specialised on sinar boards and mounting a great many copal sinars in your "user" cameras. I am suggesting a single shutter which can mounted through the double board system (with a spacer) which can be used on a number of combinations. I realise you chose the sinar board as it size-wise matches well the opening of the shutter. But I have a couple of shutterless monsters which will just fit on a Cambo board. So thought that a pair of different boards with a spacer (in this case cambo to sinar) would allow me to use them - even though I will be coming down to fixed maximum aperture of 75mm. I am trying to stay away from the century studio cameras!

[walter23]

The best shutter I've found for miscellaneous lenses is called a "speed graphic". ;)

[Carsten Wolff]

Excellent! Thanks Barry. What is the opening on the Alphax 4? Is it bigger or larger than the Ilex #5? Which is the better shutter?

The Ilex #5 is much bigger than the Alphax #4, 82.8mm vs. 62mm, but is apparently becoming difficult to service/repair, due to lack of spare-parts (according to Flutots website). The rarish Alphax #5 is also not as big as the Ilex #5, with 73.8mm openings (source: lensn2shutter).
I have bought many Alphax shutters over the years and they a) either worked fine to start with, or b) worked extremely reliably once serviced (in my case always by Flutots). The only caveat being that, especially for the bigger shutters, you need a cable release with a fairly long (>19-23mm) throw. Having said that, Ilex shutters are also v. good, but I like the look and the mechanics of the Alphax somewhat better. The dimensionally identical black Betax shutters aren't half bad either - basically an Alphax Lite- but generally lack flash synchro.