Problem Attaching Lensboard to Wista VX

[brent79]

Hi all,
Bit of a newbie question here, I'm new to large format and recently bought a Wista VX 4x5. I also bought a Nikon 300mm 5.6 lens, the seller off ebay was really helpful and sensing my ignorance offered to obtain a lensboard for me and mount the lens to it, its this one:
(http://www.adorama.com/VWLB3.html?searchinfo=Tachihara+lens+board)
I just got both the camera and lens/lensboard today and am having a lot of trouble mounting the lens to the camera. I see the bottom part of the lensboard must go in first, and in order to do this I need to tilt the lens at an angle which is preventing the lensboard from being able to tilt into place on the top so I can secure it. I'm just wondering if it can be possible that the lens is too bulky to fit on the camera I have? Or if I have the wrong lensboard? Any help would be much appreciated!
Thanks in advance
Brent

[Brian Ellis]

Are you trying to install the board with it oriented the way it's pictured on the Adorama web site? If so maybe that's the problem because the board looks to me like it's upside down in the picture. I could be wrong, I no longer have any of these types of boards and camera on hand to check but I used these boards for many years on various different cameras - Linhof, Tachihara, and Ebony but not Wista - and from memory the picture sure looks upside down.

[brent79]

Hi Brian,
You are correct and I have been trying to install it upside down to how it appears in the adorama photo, no luck so far

[mikec]

I don't have this camera, but it appears from the doc at http://www.galerie-photo.com/catalogue_wista.pdf , that it has plenty of back tilt and rise in the fron standard. try rise/back tilt. It should give you the needed freedom. hope that helps.

[Bob Salomon]

Is the problem that the board, when properly orientated, goes into the bottom holder and almost, but not quite, will not latch to the top because something is preventing the lens itself from fully fitting in the hole in the camera body?

[brent79]

Hi and thanks for the speedy replies, this forum is great!
I am able to stick the lens into the camera if I dont tilt the lensboard, and I am able to use the lock/lever to secure the lensboard, but the bottom is the issue,because the lens is so big in diameter there is not enough room to tilt it while it is inserted in the camera to secure the bottom, so I have to start with the bottom first and must come at it at a fairly steep angle to insert the bottom part of the lensboard behind the metal part, having done this the lens doesnt seem to want to fall back into the camera so I can lock the top part, common sense tells me the lens is too big, it feels like it might fall in if I use a lot of force but Im afraid it will break something,
I have attached a small picture to try and illustrate the issue
thanks again for all your replies

[Stephane]

The rear of the lens looks like it is in the way.
Maybe you just need to detach the belows from the standard, mount your lens, and re-attach the belows. Detaching the bellows is easy, you have 2 latch (?) that rotate.

[Gem Singer]

The Nikkor 300W has an 80mm diameter rear element.

It's a wonderful lens, but it was designed for use on 8x10 cameras that have larger front openings.

Your 4x5 Wista field camera has the smaller size Linhof front opening.

You need a lens that has a smaller rear element, like the Nikkor f9 300M.

[henrysamson]

You may have a case of a lens with a rear element which is just too big to fit. Since it looks like it almost clears, a solution may be to get a blank board and have it drilled so that the lens is mounted a little lower on the board. A way to test this is to make some fake boards out of 2 ply mount board and determine where the lens can be mounted such that it will not jam against the camera. If there is no position that works you may not be able to use that lens on your camera.

Henry

[Gem Singer]

Henry,

That lens is mounted in a Copal 3 shutter.

Not much room on a Linhof sized board for drilling that sized opening off center.

[brent79]

Ok, I removed the bellows and tried attaching the lens, no luck, I attached a better picture though here, its so close to fitting, would anyone recommend sanding down the rear side of the lens a bit to give it the necessary slack to fit?
thanks

[David McNiven]

Hi, rather than reduce the value of your lens or camera by modifying either of them I would make a lens board which has its own locking mechanism which allows you to insert the lens without tilting it. Not too difficult really, just takes thought and access to the right tools.
You could, I'm sure, find someone locally who would be able to do the work for you if necessary.

[David McNiven]

Oh dear. First thoughts aren't always the best are they?
A top-hat lens board would solve your problem - The rear of the lens does not then project behind the board.
As long as you can get to the locking ring to attach the lens to the board, that is!
Usually I think carefully before offering advice but I'm scared you're about to take a file to a beautiful lens...

[Bob Salomon]

If you look aty the rear of your board you will see that there is room to bore a hole a feww mm higher so the bottom of the lens will allow proper mounting. You should start with a lens board with a pilot hole or the hole for a 0 or 1 shutter and have a repair shop mill the hole up by just more then the amount that the lens rear group interfears with the proper mounting of the board. There is room as our service center does this for some large rear bodied lenses, like yours.

[Bob Salomon]

Oh dear. First thoughts aren't always the best are they?
A top-hat lens board would solve your problem - The rear of the lens does not then project behind the board.
Doh.

It also would not fit the hole in the top hat board.

[AJ Edmondson]

A real pain but in some cases it works... remove the rear lens group, install the lens board, remove the camera back and reinstall the rear group. Obviously you must then reverse the process to remove the lens from the camera and you can't fold the camera but it does allow you to use the lens. You won't be able to focus at really close distances because of the limited bellows draw but a 300mm is "useable" on the camera. If you just "really like" the focal length, an f9 in a Copal 1 is much easier to handle.

[Bob Salomon]

A real pain but in some cases it works... remove the rear lens group, install the lens board, remove the camera back and reinstall the rear group. Obviously you must then reverse the process to remove the lens from the camera and you can't fold the camera but it does allow you to use the lens. You won't be able to focus at really close distances because of the limited bellows draw but a 300mm is "useable" on the camera. If you just "really like" the focal length, an f9 in a Copal 1 is much easier to handle.

Be very careful with this technique. The threads are not made for constant mounting and unm,ounting. It is not that difficult to do it wrong and end up with an unoperable lens and camera and a very expensive repair.

Your Wista is capable of very long extensions with Wista accessories. It is only the basic camera that is limited to a 12" bellows draw. With accessories you can double, or more, the total extension.

[mikec]

that is a real cannon. possibly get the rear element away from the standard with a top hat. Have a look at item 200272531306 on fleabay to get an idea. It might be worth measuring your rear element diameter and asking the seller if it would fit. you might also be able to find the same board locally of course.

[brent79]

Hi again, and thanks for all your replies.
Still not sure what the solution will be.
Just to clarify, I bought the 300mm to use for head and shoulder-length portraits, was told focusing for portraits at this length wouldn't be an issue. I opted for the 5.6 over the 9 after reading good things about the lens and was told that 5.6 would be a lot easier for focusing

[Gem Singer]

The circular front opening in the Wista VX 4x5 is approx 85 mm in diameter.

The rear element of the Nikkor 300W is 80 mm in diameter. That only leaves 5mm to play with until you bump into the metal ridge of the light trap on the back of the lens board.

A slight amount of tilting is necessary in order to insert and remove the lens board. It doesn't merely go straight into place.

I own both the Nikkor f5.6 300W, in a Copal 3 shutter and the Nikkor f9 300M, in a Copal 1.

The 300W takes 95mm screw-in filters. The 300M takes 67mm filters.

The 300W is just too large to use on that small field camera.

Why is that so difficult to understand (or admit)?

[Steve Hamley]

Don't modify the lens. You can buy this one that's already been modified!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/300mm-MC-SCHNEIDER-KREUZNACH-4x5-8x10-COPAL-3-GERMANY_W0QQitemZ220526067667QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFilm_Cameras?hash=item335860bfd3

And it hasn't been bitten! No connection to seller.:D

Cheers, Steve

[BradS]

a 210mm lens is normally about right for portraits on 4x5.

300mm is just too long...and, the Nikkor-W is just way too big...that monster is meant for an 8x10 camera. It might fit in a big monorail however - like the Sinar F2.

If you really must have a 300mm lens on you 4x5, there is a nice 300mm Fujinon-C for sale at a very reasonable price here in the classifieds...:)

The 300mm Nikkor-M is also a fine lens...but, both are really too long for 4x5.

[Brian Ellis]

Hi again, and thanks for all your replies.
Still not sure what the solution will be.
Just to clarify, I bought the 300mm to use for head and shoulder-length portraits, was told focusing for portraits at this length wouldn't be an issue. I opted for the 5.6 over the 9 after reading good things about the lens and was told that 5.6 would be a lot easier for focusing

You were misinformed in a couple respects. F5.6 vs f9 can make a significant difference in focusing ease with a short focal length lens. But with a 300mm lens on a 4x5 camera an f9 lens is easy to focus because most of the light is coming more or less straight on (layman's terminology) to the ground glass. Which is unlike the situation with short focal lengths where a lot of light strikes the ground glass at an oblique angle, which means it has to travel farther to the ground glass and hence is dimmer than light coming more or less through the center of the lens.

To use a 300mm lens on that camera you'll need a top hat extension or some other accessory that increases the effective bellows extension. You only have a 12 inch bellows extension (i.e. 300mm) so a 300mm lens can only be used at infinity. Unless your subjects are a mile or so away you won't be able to focus on them.

I'm not a portrait photographer but my suggestion would be to sell the camera and buy something better suited to your intended portrait use. That would be a monorail studio camera such as some iteration of a Sinar, Arca Swiss, Cambo/Calumet et al. The good news is that these kinds of used cameras may cost less than what you paid for the Wista because there's no great demand for them these days. You may or may not need to sell the lens as well depending on whether your new camera is able to physically handle it better than your Wista can. However, monorails typically have longer bellows extensions than the Wista so if you can get it on the camera you'd at least be able to focus the lens closer than infinity.

[Steve Hamley]

What Brian said, but no need to sell the field camera unless you're not using it at all as a field camera and have no intentions of doing so. A cheap Cambo/Calumet with large boards can go very cheaply, around $150-200. I'm currently using a 4x5 Sinar Norma for lenses in large shutters or barrels. You can find a decent Norma for $450 or so, which certainly isn't the rock bottom route, but I use the Sinar boards on my 8x10 so it made sense for me.

The classic portrait length for 4x5 lenses is 9" or 229mm, although 250mm is also popular.

Cheers, Steve

[brent79]

Hi again,
And thanks for all the replies.

Just to clarify, will this 300mm focus at a distance that can give me a portrait of a face? The seller said this lenses infinity focus was around 6 feet. If not is a 240mm a better option for the camera I have with its bellows limitation?

The work I plan to do with this will be in the field and I think I will get a lot more future use out of it than a Sinar or Cambo/Calumet

cheers
Brent

[Gem Singer]

A lens in the 210-270 focal length would a better choice for your needs.

Just make sure that the lens you choose is mounted in a Copal 0 or Copal 1 shutter.

Don't be concerned whether it is f5.6 or f8. Longer LF lenses have larger image circles, and you will only be using the brighter center of the circle for 4x5.

A 210, mounted in a Copal 1 shutter, is more than sufficient for head and shoulder portraiture for 4x5 at six feet.

[AJ Edmondson]

I frequently use a 250mm Imagon on my Wista SP and am not hampered by the bellows length for my purposes (also use a 305mm G Claron). I have a Wisner Tech Field but I prefer the Wista because - for me - the Wisner is just too aggravating... but everyone is different and there are ample posts on this forum to demonstrate that! I am sorry that you had this unfortunate experience but, if you still want to use the lens, Bob Salomon's advice (mounting off-center) is probably the best way to go.

[Bob Salomon]

Hi again,
And thanks for all the replies.

Just to clarify, will this 300mm focus at a distance that can give me a portrait of a face? The seller said this lenses infinity focus was around 6 feet. If not is a 240mm a better option for the camera I have with its bellows limitation?

The work I plan to do with this will be in the field and I think I will get a lot more future use out of it than a Sinar or Cambo/Calumet

cheers
Brent

After we talked I spoke to our service center and they pulled a Linhof focusing scale for a 300mm lens for a Linhof Master Technika 45. I am afraid that 6' is no where near infinity for a 300mm lens. On the Linhof focusing scale the marked distances are:

8', 10', 15', 25', 50', 100' ∞

So infinity is more then 100' away.