HP CombiPlan Development

[Bryan Logan]

Heretofore, all of my film development has been with 135 & 120 roll film in small tanks and LF (4x5 & 8x10) using trays. I've just obtained a HP Combi Plan in order to process more sheets at a time.

I plan to use the Combi Plan by inversion agitation. My question is: WRT to the mfg's .suggested development times, should the Combi Plan be regarded as a "small tank" since the development times assume tank inversion, or should the "large tank" times be used because it is, well...a large tank?

In other words, which of the starting development times suggested by the mfg. ("small tank", "large tank", "tray") should be used with the Combi Plan?

[Laurent]

I use the "small tank" times, and they seem fine for me.

[uhner]

I agree with Laurent, you can use development times for small tanks as a starting point and adjust as necessary.

On a side note – these tanks work well with minimal agitation techniques if you are so inclined.

[77seriesiii]

I agree w/ Uhner, these HP's work really well with minimal agitation or stand development techniques. I've had great success with stand development and Pyro, as well as normal developers doing normal agitation. I've never had good success w/ double loading sheets and getting 12 out of a single tank but I know folks here have done exactly that and done very well with it.

It does dribble a bit so dont leave it upside down long and wear old clothes when doing this just in case more stuff comes out than desired...

./e

[bobwysiwyg]

I agree on all the points mentioned. I've found that after loading the film and putting the lid on, carefully go around the soft rubber lid and makes sure it is pressed very firmly down on the tank along all edges, particularly the corners, leakage is almost non-existent.

[Matthew Rolfe]

Minimal agitation, I only invert the tank three times each minute this takes about 5 seconds (very gentle inversions) this appears to be plenty, some people may do less. I work with Rodinal at 1:50.

[ki6mf]

I have used Combi with D 76 in a 1:2, 1:3 and 1:5 for compensating developer with no problems! Agree with all the comments listed above! If it leaks it means I did not seal the lid or drains properly. To make pour times go faster make sure you open the drains so the air inside vents and then don't forget to tighten them again! In the USA Bob Solomon at HP Marketing who distributes the product is very good at customer service

[Toyon]

You'll probably have to determine your own ideal developing time for the Combi. Filling/draining time for the combi is 25 seconds. I always add 15 seconds to my fill time. Don't worry about this having a differential effect on negative development. The only warning I would give you is to not use photo-flo or any soap on the tank. It doesn't completely wash off and can eventually cause edge development anomalies.

[jp]

I've found that gentle agitation is all that is required. Gently invert it a 3 times each minute like Matthew suggests. Too vigorous agitation could actually cause the sheets to come out of place.

After the fixing is mostly done, I take off the top, and clean the top and filler and funnel while fixing finishes. Then I just use the Combi as an open tank for wash/hypo/wash.

I have a 5x7 tray I use for the photoflo step. I don't have to mix up much photoflo and don't have to reuse it. I just drop each negative into the photoflo for 10 seconds before taking it out to dry.

Sometimes I do a second tank at the same time. I start the timer with an extra minute and fill the second tank with developer at a 1 minute interval behind the first tank. (Just drain the first tank 1 minute before the timer is done). I usually shoot more than six negatives in an outing, so this is timesaving way to process up to 12 images.

[Bryan Logan]

Thanks to everyone for the advice and tips.

Toyon: Thanks for the Photo Flo tip. I always use it with metal tanks, and wash all of my tanks and utensils in warm, soapy, water followed by a squeaky clean rinse. I would have done the same with the CombiPlan tank. I am now forewarned. :)

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks to everyone for the advice and tips.

Toyon: Thanks for the Photo Flo tip. I always use it with metal tanks, and wash all of my tanks and utensils in warm, soapy, water followed by a squeaky clean rinse. I would have done the same with the CombiPlan tank. I am now forewarned. :)

You do know that the inlet and outlet on the Combi are light tight hose connectors? If you take the top off and push a hose onto the bottom connector you have now turned the Combi into a bottem fed, forced film washer. Washing this way would eliminate any remaining wetting agent like Photo Flo from the tank, especially if you ran some water through it for a minute or two after the film is removed from the tank.

[Toyon]

You do know that the inlet and outlet on the Combi are light tight hose connectors? If you take the top off and push a hose onto the bottom connector you have now turned the Combi into a bottem fed, forced film washer. Washing this way would eliminate any remaining wetting agent like Photo Flo from the tank, especially if you ran some water through it for a minute or two after the film is removed from the tank.

Partly true. It does make it into a film washing tank. However, as Kodak chemists discovered, soap cannot be entirely eliminated from some plastics, regardless of water flow.

[Bob Salomon]

Partly true. It does make it into a film washing tank. However, as Kodak chemists discovered, soap cannot be entirely eliminated from some plastics, regardless of water flow.

You do know that Kodak's roll film/35mm developing tanks were also plastic? And the film was wrapped in a plastic apron for the processing.

In the 30 years that I have sold the Combi-Plan we have never had anyone contact us that they had a problem with wetting agent residue. We have had users call with every other type of question about the tank and its' use and operation. Even questions that have not appeared on this forum. But nothing about Photo-Flo problems.

[jp]

I have used photoflo in both the tank and the tray. It has not caused any problems in my Combi tank. I just prefer to use a small amount in a small tray.

[Toyon]

You do know that Kodak's roll film/35mm developing tanks were also plastic? And the film was wrapped in a plastic apron for the processing.

In the 30 years that I have sold the Combi-Plan we have never had anyone contact us that they had a problem with wetting agent residue. We have had users call with every other type of question about the tank and its' use and operation. Even questions that have not appeared on this forum. But nothing about Photo-Flo problems.


I've corresponded with you more than once about Combi-Plan issues. Your attitude is very consistent - the customer is always wrong.

[Bob Salomon]

I've corresponded with you more than once about Combi-Plan issues. Your attitude is very consistent - the customer is always wrong. Are you German?

Sorry, no.

But if you have a problem with your tank just send it to us. If it is an issue about changing the product. That would not be possible.

[Len Eselson]

I have found that for me, agitation is best done using a right/left motion when viewing the long side of the tank. This avoids the occasional moving of a film out of its slot into its neighbors position caused by the sloshing of the liquid.
Len Eselson

[Bob Salomon]

I have found that for me, agitation is best done using a right/left motion when viewing the long side of the tank. This avoids the occasional moving of a film out of its slot into its neighbors position caused by the sloshing of the liquid.
Len Eselson

Then you either don't have the curved grooves of the end pieces both facing each other on the film rack or you have a broken hold down clip. This tank was made for inversion agitation and the film will not skip slots if the film holder is properly assembled and the clip was not broken.

The clip slides onto the rack and is ratcheted so it locks onto the film rack. To remove it you must gently squeeze the sides to release the ratchet. If the spring sides are not pressed while removing the clip the springs will break. That would prevent the clip from remaining where it was set against the top edge of the film and a sheet of film could skip slots or fall out with inversion.

The ends of the film holder have a side with curved grooves for sheet film and a side with straight grooves for developing glass plates. When processing film the two curved sides must face each another. When processing glass plates the two straight sides should face each other. If one side has the straight grooves facing in and the other has the curved grooves facing in then film can switch slots.

You have one of these two problems, or both. Please check your film holder for proper orientation of the end pieces and check your clip for a broken or cracked spring. You can order a new clip from your camera store or by calling us at 800 735-4373.

[ki6mf]

I have found that if a single sheet of film is in the holder and the clip is broken or partially broken, and I didn't notice this the film will pop out of the groves that hold them in place. I have always replaced the clip.

Photoflow has never been an issue for me and is is only a problem if i don't clean the tank including the drains, both top and bottom.

If you don't replace the clip or clean the tanks all issues are operator error.

[Len Eselson]

Then you either don't have the curved grooves of the end pieces both facing each other on the film rack or you have a broken hold down clip. .

Bob, please don't assume that all problems with the equipment you represent are caused by users. My clip is NOT broken, the CURVED grooves are facing inwards, and the clip is PROPERLY installed.

I have successfully developed many many sheets of film with the Combi Tank, and have evolved an approach which works best for me. The post I made was to inform a new user of my approach which minimizes my chances of the film slipping out of its grooves and still provides the necessary agitation of the solutions. I hope that some find this information useful, but if another approach is best for them, then that should be OK with all of us.

The tank does have weaknesses which have been well documented in this forum and others, but with proper technique can still provide a useful function. I don't want to belabor the weaknesses but instead of defending them, I would think that you would be working with the manufacturer to improve the product.

Len Eselson

[Bob Salomon]

Len,

A properly assembled tank with a properly working clip that is in contact with the top of the film does not let film change slots from agitation. Something is wrong with your system.

If you send it to us we will find and fix the problem or replace the part(s) that are not performing properly.

Your description and technique are NOT the way the Combi works when all is right.

[Len Eselson]

If you send it to us we will find and fix the problem or replace the part(s) that are not performing properly.



Bob, No thanks, for the reasons previously stated
Len

[Matthew Rolfe]

Len, I have noticed that my negative development is too contrasty even at shortened times and this may be due to my agitation technique (Based on my personal film developer combination.)

I invert twice a minute and perhaps this is too much agitation. I would be interested to know if you have consistantly good results without inverting the tank? Was your decision to switch from inversion to 'side to side' agitation based purely on the film slipping in the carriers, or did you have other reasons.

Regards
Matthew Rolfe

[Bob Salomon]

Bob, No thanks, for the reasons previously stated
Len

So you would prefer to have an improperly functioning system when the manufacturer is offering to fix it at no charge to you other then the shipping cost to us?

[John Clifford]

Bob and Len,
Let us get oriented here. Len mentioned looking at the "long side" of the tank. Hard to know what that is. And the diagram could be showing a couple of orientations. Bare with me here.
According to the instructions accompanying the Combi-plan tank, you hold the tank with the lid at top and the drain plug at bottom pointing to your right (or left) side. In this way you are directly looking at the largest face of the tank. You can now do an 180 degree turn finishing with the tank upside down. (Rather like turning a steering wheel). You can then return the tank to the original position and the repeat the twist in the opposite direction. In this way you always have the same large face of the tank in front of you.
In this way the liquid is encouraged to slide across the face of the film. Any other technique will tend to force the liquid to apply pressure to the face of the film causing it to buckle and possible leave it's slots. (I certainly had this happen to me in my early days). Using the correct technique has solved the problem. Hope this helps readers.
Finally a question for Bob. Can you tell me what function the plastic spacer washers have? It appears from experimentation that removing them makes for a snugger fit for the film in the slots and reduces the chance of film becoming dislodged. With the washers in place the sheets seems very loose in their slots.
I do like the Combi-Plan tanks and use them consistently now I have refined my technique.
John

[Bob Salomon]

Bob and Len,
Let us get oriented here. Len mentioned looking at the "long side" of the tank. Hard to know what that is. And the diagram could be showing a couple of orientations. Bare with me here.
According to the instructions accompanying the Combi-plan tank, you hold the tank with the lid at top and the drain plug at bottom pointing to your right (or left) side. In this way you are directly looking at the largest face of the tank. You can now do an 180 degree turn finishing with the tank upside down. (Rather like turning a steering wheel). You can then return the tank to the original position and the repeat the twist in the opposite direction. In this way you always have the same large face of the tank in front of you.
In this way the liquid is encouraged to slide across the face of the film. Any other technique will tend to force the liquid to apply pressure to the face of the film causing it to buckle and possible leave it's slots. (I certainly had this happen to me in my early days). Using the correct technique has solved the problem. Hope this helps readers.
Finally a question for Bob. Can you tell me what function the plastic spacer washers have? It appears from experimentation that removing them makes for a snugger fit for the film in the slots and reduces the chance of film becoming dislodged. With the washers in place the sheets seems very loose in their slots.
I do like the Combi-Plan tanks and use them consistently now I have refined my technique.
John

John,

First, I wrote the instructions for the CombiPlan so I appreciate your pointing it out.

One of the features of the CombiPlan 45 tank was that it could process 12 sheets of 6x9 film if one put the spacers in the rack and used a spacer guide that divided the film rack in half. So half the film would be on the bottom of the rack and the other half across the top and held in place with the Film Clip (the dividing spacer had small teeth on the top and the bottom to keep the sheets properly seperated.

As 69 sheet film disappeared we discontinued the divider rack but the factory in Sweden kept including the blue spacers that were needed for the divider rack. Those spacers today have no use whatsoever and should be thrown out. If they are used to process 45 sheet or glass plates the dimensions of the rack would be too wide and not hold the film properly.

Today only the 45 Combi-Plan T is available. In the past there were many other Combina system products. Those included a lab version of the system for dip and dunk processing with a single rack and however many tanks you needed. These were not daylight loadable or fillable and the system included floating lids, hard lids, numbers for the front of the tank, 5x7 versions of the T and L tanks, 35, 120/220 single and multiple reels and tanks, loading system for 35mm/120/220 to center load the film onto the reel. Unfortunately, as tools wore out and darkroom use declined all were discontinued (and the tools scrapped) about 1983, except for the Combi-Plan T.

[John Clifford]

Thanks Bob,
I have an idea that many people are installing those washers. I have bought three tanks over the years and I installed the washers in every case. (The exploded assembly drawing also shows them installed.) This is probably why many folk have complained about the sheets shifting out of the grooves. I removed the washers and found the film to be very unlikely to move, even with rough agitation. Eureka!
If there are fifteen ways of doing something wrong I will find a sixteenth!
Thanks for the information.
John

[Merg Ross]

,

As 69 sheet film disappeared we discontinued the divider rack but the factory in Sweden kept including the blue spacers that were needed for the divider rack. Those spacers today have no use whatsoever and should be thrown out. If they are used to process 45 sheet or glass plates the dimensions of the rack would be too wide and not hold the film properly.


[QUOTE=John Clifford;546997]Thanks Bob,
I have an idea that many people are installing those washers. I have bought three tanks over the years and I installed the washers in every case. (The exploded assembly drawing also shows them installed.) This is probably why many folk have complained about the sheets shifting out of the grooves. I removed the washers and found the film to be very unlikely to move, even with rough agitation. Eureka!
If there are fifteen ways of doing something wrong I will find a sixteenth!
Thanks for the information.
John

John, good point. That is exactly how I assembled my tank per the drawing, with the #459420 washers in place.

Bob, it might be a good idea to revise the Combi Plan "T" instructions, or cease including the blue washers.

[bobwysiwyg]

Thanks Bob,
I have an idea that many people are installing those washers.
John

Count me among them. Out they come!

[Len Eselson]

So you would prefer to have an improperly functioning system when the manufacturer is offering to fix it at no charge to you other then the shipping cost to us?

Bob, why should I send the tank to you when it when it functions correctly, ie it develops film consistently and without screwups when I use it as described.
Len Eselson

[Bryan Logan]

Thanks Bob,
I have an idea that many people are installing those washers. I have bought three tanks over the years and I installed the washers in every case. (The exploded assembly drawing also shows them installed.) This is probably why many folk have complained about the sheets shifting out of the grooves. I removed the washers and found the film to be very unlikely to move, even with rough agitation. Eureka!
If there are fifteen ways of doing something wrong I will find a sixteenth!
Thanks for the information.
John

Yes, although there is no mention of the blue washers in the instructions, the exploded assembly view shows them as being installed next to one of the film guides. Which is what I did since I would not have believed that a mfg. would include unnecessary parts for its product. Thats too funny! :D

Glad to hear that they are not needed as I'll be using the CombiPlan for the first time this weekend!

[Bob Salomon]

Bob, why should I send the tank to you when it when it functions correctly, ie it develops film consistently and without screwups when I use it as described.
Len Eselson

" This avoids the occasional moving of a film out of its slot into its neighbors position caused by the sloshing of the liquid.
Len Eselson"

Because that is not normal!