Zone IV / Zone III Preference - Reasons

[Flauvius]

Why is it that some of you prefer Zone IV over Zone III for your shadow placement? Please state your films and developers, and whether your shadow placement is a function of your scene and artistic vision.

Thank You,

Flauvius

[Brian Ellis]

When I use Zone III the negatives are often a little thin. I get better density in the shadow areas by using Zone IV most of the time and minus developing (usually, since placing the darkest important shadow area on Zone IV often pushes the highlights into Zone VIII and higher). HP5+ and TMax 100, D76 1-1.

[neil poulsen]

Zone IV's too light for me. I like III; it works better for the way I think about shadows. Plus, III will change less with changes in development to place the highlights.

[jim kitchen]

Dear Flauvius,

Such a broad question, but a good one... :)

Placing a shadow in Zone IV means that you can print down to Zone III to retain valuable subtle detail, and every other Zone within any image depends upon your own development expertise in the darkroom, your own artistic vision, and your own skill sets going forward.

I always place my shadows in Zone IV, because history taught me to gather as much detail as possible in an image, to balance an image with proper development, and to print delicate information where I wish it to be, whether it is located in deep dark shadow, or within brilliant highlights.

My own question to myself has always been, whether to let a shadow drift into oblivion because I exposed incorrectly, or to do this with intent. I would rather be able to control the latter. If you desire to be technically perfect, and you have expertly placed your Zone III exposure for each image, then that shadow detail decision is effectively made during your base exposure, and if you happen to miss your base exposure for whatever reason, then you cannot bring back any shadow detail if it does not happen to be there.

I suggest that you should try both approaches, and let yourself determine which is more effective for you, and your artistic endeavours.

jim k

[John Bowen]

Zone IV. For the reason, you'll have to check out this video:

http://www.photoformulary.com/images/Formulary_Movies/Barnbaum_5_Second_Workshop.mov

Here's an expanded version of the video on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlnt5yFArWo

[ki6mf]

Sometimes I can't get a good reading for Zone 3 and is no distinct shadow available. Some times I want more light in my textured shadows. Some times the subject is illuminated in even light. Under these circumstances I place in zone 4 and derive the zone 3 setting. If doing this meter for the shadow and change only one stop instead of two stops.

[Flauvius]

Thanks John for the link to Bruce's video, it offers a compelling reason for me to stay with Zone IV and to use MC paper.

Flauvius

[Eric Woodbury]

I believe it is traditional because Z3 is where AA said that the detail started to appear in film and this is true enough, but for me it is not where the importance starts, so I use Z4. In my photographs, I have a lot of important info by Z4 and I want the openess and separation to by obvious by Z4. Probably doesn't matter. It's just a style.

[Maris Rusis]

It depends on how much of the picture is carried by shadow detail.

If most of the picture area and most of the interest is in shadow, for example in a back-lighted scene, I will place this on zone V. The highlights might fall on zone VIII, IX, or X but I'm prepared to let perhaps 5% of the picture area go to paper-base white just to get the impression of radiance and luminosity that a large area of open shadow conveys so nicely.

Where shadow areas are small and the eye does not expect much detail in them I will place them as low as zone III. Tiny dark things, twigs against sky for example, can fall where they may. This time letting as much as 5% of the picture area go to black is a useful way of enhancing the impression of light filled mid tones.

[srbphoto]

For me it depends on how I "see" the image.

[Gem Singer]

Whether you place your shadow areas in Zone III or Zone IV is a matter of preference.

If you want a small amount of detail in the darkest areas, use Zone III.

If you want a lot of detail in the darkest areas, use Zone IV.

Just make certain that you used enough exposure to register detail on the film.

If it's not on the film, it cannot be be added later.

A one stop difference in todays B&W films is not all that critical.

[Chuck P.]

I believe it is traditional because Z3 is where AA said that the detail started to appear in film and this is true enough,.............

Actually, Zone II is where there is...."The first suggestion of texture. Deep tonalities, representing the darkest part of the image in which some slight detail is required."

Zone III is full texture.

[Michael Kadillak]

The only thing that matters is what tonality is in the print. You could call it zone 4 and if you do not have sufficient film speed it could be inadequately represented in detail and not work as an adequate zone 3 tonality. Exposure, film speed, development and paper have a very unique relationship. If you are not careful you end up trying to solve a three variable mathematical problem. Isolate one variable at a time to dial it in.

[jeroldharter]

The type of film also matters. The exposure to density curve should be linear through the upper zones or else the highlights will shoulder off due to the extra exposure. If the curve were linear through a large range of exposure values, then you could always overexpose a few stops and just print down. So it pays to do some testing.

[percepts]

some films have longer toe and good shadow separation won't occur until zone IV.
Some developers give the toe a kick so that its very short and full shadow separation will occur by zone III.
So its more than a personal choice. Its a question of evaluating your materials and processing to find where full shadow separation happens, zone III or IV.
In AA's "the negative" there is a page where he prints zone patches of photographed hardboard. Suggest you try and reproduce that page. You will learn a lot about your exposure, development and printing technique. You will quickly find where full separation happens and whether neg really fits paper and therefore if zones are where you think they should be.