What grade FB paper

[jonder]

I am working on a series of photographs which i would like to print on graded FB paper. The prints will be dark overall (from relatively low contrast negatives with black shadow areas), with few highlights and relatively large central areas with very little or no shadow detail (black). I am thinking about using Ilford's cooltone developer. What grade paper should i use (my intent is that the prints are not too contrasty and the black is BLACK). I am also open to recommendations on which paper (ilford...) I should use.

Thanks

Jon

[Toyon]

Have you thought about intensifying your negatives with a selenium soak. You should be able to add about a grade of contrast.

[Oren Grad]

Harman (Ilford) Cooltone developer is no longer made.

[jonder]

Actually the negatives are fine, pretty much as i want them since they are of holes in the ground the centre is black. The outside is not and there are some highlights as you can imagine but not many. What would be a recommended printing method then, if i do not want much contrast, nor the whole print going simply from gray to black. It is difficult to explain since i have quite a good picture of what i want in my head but cant really put it into words.
I will be working in a professionally equipped darkroom, but i dont have the time to do too much testing since i havent my own. I have darkroom experience just not with graded papers, and really its quite an irrational decision to use them, but its in my head now and it won't go away:( . Is two bath development something i should consider here?

[jonder]

I did not know that. They sell it at the only two stores in my city that still sell darkroom equipment and chemicals. Maybe i should stock up :). Does anybody have experience with it?

[Bjorn Nilsson]

The best way to find out what grade to get is to test it with some fresh Ilford MG paper. If you print on the same enlarger as you intend to use for your graded paper, nothing much will change. (I.e. you will possibly/probably have to use loose filters under the lens for the MG paper, but that's no problem.)
From there you can find out if you need grade 2 (normal or special) or grade 3 (hard or possibly "normal"). Without really being able to visualize what you want to achieve, I would guess grade 3 or equivialent.
If you want cool, I recon Ilford Galerie is as cool as it gets. There isn't too much to choose from nowadays. With Galerie you don't have to worry too much about your developer anyhow, as it doesn't react that much to what kind of developer you use. (Apart from having some soft working developer at hand, like Selectol-soft, which gives you somewhat (½ grade or so) softer prints.)
I don't know about the Berger paper which Ilford manufactures nowadays, but I do know it costs silly money. On the other end there are a few different (former) eastern european papers like Foma and Emaks, which comes either under their own name or Adox (among others). Anyhow, most of these eastern papers are chlorobromide papers, which tend to go warm unless you use a cool-tone developer. (Emaks K888 is an old favourite of mine, which is somewhat cool, but a bit tricky. It has very deep blacks, but with lots of detail in the shadows. Worth a try anyhow.)
I could go on for quite a while, but you have to try it out yourself, as you seem to look for a certain feeling in the paper/print. As I implied above, Ilford (Galerie that is) is very stable and you will quite soon find out what you're about to get. The more old-fashioned eastern papers does react more to different develpers, toners etc. and will take longer to learn (as well as different batches may react different, something which will not happen with Ilford).
So, try to get hold of some small boxes of e.g. 8x10" papers and do some testing. It may be somewhat tedious, but there is a lot to learn in the experience. Once you've found the paper you like you can buy it in the size you intend for your project. (If you try to make some notes on how you arrive to a good result on the 8x10", these notes will save you a lot of time and money when you print bigger.)

//Björn

[jonder]

Thank you very much for an informative answer. I will do the tests on multigrade ilford FB paper which i have some of at home. I actually remembered i had it after posting this. I will of course take notes, i have become an avid note-taker lately anyhow and I agree it just doesn't pay not to do it. Thanks again.

[Bjorn Nilsson]

Just to be clear about it. You mention that you want the blacks to be black without detail. Now, the way papers (and films for that matter) works is that they could either be straight "curve" or have a long or short toe or shoulder. So unless you've already have made your shots on film, much of the work of getting what you envision is done in the photography stage.
You don't mention what kind of camera/film you're working with, but as this is the Large Format forum, you're using sheet film (arn't you ;) ). Anyhow, film is film.
Now, where I'm trying to get is to where you want the contrasts in the final print to appear. I.e. do you want your shadows/highlights to be flat or snappy. To explain this let's say that I shoot a dark timber wall with just about "one single ray of sunlight" hitting it. The rest of the wall is in a rather deep shadow. The wall in itself does have plenty of small detail like nails etc on it. There are many ways in how to make the final print, but let's say that I use TMX (a film which holds shadow detail quite well, i.e. a "short toe" film) and print it on Emaks K888 (a paper which have a very short shoulder, so it prints shadow detail very well). I would then, after some work of course, have a print where the dark wall holds lots of detail but also the very dark black which Emaks is capable of. That single stroke of sunlight would probably look pure white, or if I printed it down, just bland light gray. On the other hand I could have used TriX Pro (which is better in the highlights, i.e. a "short shoulder" film) and a "short toe" paper, which would render the entire wall quite dull, but the detail in that stroke of light would be quite easy to make visible. Depending on what you want to achieve, one of those combinations may spell "success", while the other spells "disaster" or at least just a waste of time or money. (I didn't say which one... :) ) These things are all part of the "personality" of both film and paper. If you take the time to learn about your material, you can play with it to your liking.
To finish off, Ilford Galerie is in my opinion a somewhat "short shoulder" paper, but still quite neutral. Emaks is quite extremely "short shoulder". As I mostly print with MG paper, I don't know the characteristics of all the FB single grade papers, but I recon there should be some paper which is more of a "long shoulder/short toe" paper. (I could imagine that Fomabrom is in that category.)
This is what it looks like today. In a month or two, maybe the market is more slim. (There was plenty to choose from some 20 years ago and you could walk in to just about any photo shop and get both advice and a batch of papers to work with. Now they sell memory cards.)

//Björn

[jonder]

Im definitely not going for 'snappy', more for bland but black, so the highlights are in truth about middle gray or a little lighter. I am using T-MAX 4x5 with a Linhof Kardan BI 13x18 camera (using as 4x5) with a 50 or so yr old convertible 150mm Schneider Lens. Film is developed in Ilfotec DD-X. I need the detail in the shadows, but there will always (due to my subject) be quite a big area of pure black. So from what you write (and i was probably going to use this paper in any case), I will be going for Galerie grade II (I still have to do the MG tests, but I have a feeling that's what it's going to be). Thanks for your extensive input Bjorn. I will check out the Emaks paper also. It sounds promising.

[John Kasaian]

You might check out Fomabrom. Freestyle stocks the graded FB stuff. :)