Gundlach Rapid Rectigraphic 26"-40"-56"

[sanking]

I acquired in trade from Tracy Storer a Gundlach triple convertible Rapid Rectigraphic lens, 26"-40"-56". It is really quite something, in very good condition considering age, and I eventually plan to use it with a 20X24" camera with Ortho film or paper for some retro type work. Unfortunately it came without a flange so I am temporary unable to mount it on the camera to evaluate image size and quality. To compensate for the lack of flange there is a complete set (11) of laser cut waterhouse stops with graph for f/stop with all combinations of the lens.

After poking around on the web I found a bit of information about the lens, indicating that the design is a modified type Rapid Rectilinear, but could not find any information regarding angle of coverage.

A few questions.

1. Does anyone have any direct experience with this particular lens? If so I would appreciate your comments.
2. Other than S.K. Grimes where could I get a flange made for the lens?
3. How does one clean brass of an old lens like this? I don't want to do any damage to the surface but it would be nice to see this thing real shiny as it must have been when it was new.

Thanks in advance for comments and suggestions.

Sandy King

[Steven Tribe]

Flanges are a problem that never goes away - screw threads demand a lot of special tools, lathes and a machinist who can, and will, do it. If this is to be permanently attached to a lens board there are other solutions (3 locking grub screws at 90 deg. to the flange thread). As far as the qualitities go, I can only quote from 1924 :

"Readers are urged not to put extra money..... because (a) rapid rectilinear lens is described as having unusual correction..... There is made in the United States one such lens, the Rapid Rectigraphic, of which this is true, and its superiority results from the use of three instead of two elementary lenses in each of the combinations."

[Louis Pacilla]

Hi Sandy

BTW- The Catalog I emailed about ( Camera Eccentric)has coverage info. The Korona catalog . Not the Gundlach.

Here's a pic of the tri color after cleaned.

[sanking]

Hi Sandy

BTW- The Catalog I emailed about ( Camera Eccentric)has coverage info. The Korona catalog . Not the Gundlach.

Here's a pic of the tri color after cleaned.


Beautiful!

BTW, the Camera Eccentric site is a great resource. I had not found it before.

But, I did not see any information there as to angle of coverage of the Rapid Rectigraphic?

Sandy King

[Louis Pacilla]

Hi Sandy

Yep. Sorry. thought the coverage info was in there.
Probably the same as most good R.R's maybe 50 degree to 60-70 stopped down but not sure? I do know they should always be stopped down for corner sharpness.

I'll see what other resources I have . I'll let you know what I find coverage info.

Hey Sandy if you like this The Rapid.Rectigraphic you should keep your eye out for a Voigtlander Euryskop series IV. F6 RR made w/ Jena glass. Fantastic. Look for a #7-9 for big coverage & nice & bright for focusing @ f6.

I'll let you know if I find any coverage info.
Peace
Louis

[Toyon]

lensn2shutter.com may make flanges. SK Grimes makes superb ones - well worth the money.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

"3. How does one clean brass of an old lens like this? I don't want to do any damage to the surface but it would be nice to see this thing real shiny as it must have been when it was new."

'Mother's Mag & Aluminum Polish' product #05101, any decent auto dept. will have it. It will take brass or aluminum to a mirror polish very quickly, turns black almost instantly, use cotton balls or pads from the cosmetics counter, wear gloves.

[Toyon]

"3. How does one clean brass of an old lens like this? I don't want to do any damage to the surface but it would be nice to see this thing real shiny as it must have been when it was new."

'Mother's Mag & Aluminum Polish' product #05101, any decent auto dept. will have it. It will take brass or aluminum to a mirror polish very quickly, turns black almost instantly, use cotton balls or pads from the cosmetics counter, wear gloves.

Only a fool would clean a brass lens (unless corrosion was interfering with function). Brass makers used proprietary coatings on brass that cannot be replicated without a lot of knowledge. It also degrades the value to collectors and speeds up re-oxidation.

[Dan Dozer]

Regarding the lens flange issue - assuming that your lens board will wood, I have a technique that works extremely well and costs virtually nothing. Many people talk about just screwing the lens into a hole that you cut into the wood lens board. I have never had a lot of luck trying this - lens either goes in crooked or won't stay in place. With a big heavy lens like what you probably have, you need something that will hold it securely. I cut the hole in the lens board about 1/16" larger than the diameter of the threads. Down at your local craft store (like Michaels here in southern California) you can get a sheet of 1/16" thick craft foam for about $1 a sheet. Cut a strip of the foam the thickness of the lens board and use double stick Scotch tape to tape it to the inside of the hole opening. Then you just screw the lens into the foam opening. I've done this numerous times and it works great even with big heavy lenses.

[Jon Wilson]

Sandy,
What is the diameter of the flange you need? I have your lens' little brother, i.e., 10x12 Gundlach Rapid Rectigraphic barrel lens aka triple convertible. The 16 inch f8 (405mm), 34 inch f16 (860mm), 25 1/4 inch f12.5 (640mm) barrel lens with its original flange. Maybe the flange on my Gundlach will fit yours.

It is the Holiday Season and Miracles do happen. :)

Let me know. Jon

[sanking]

Sandy,
What is the diameter of the flange you need? I have your lens' little brother, i.e., 10x12 Gundlach Rapid Rectigraphic barrel lens aka triple convertible. The 16 inch f8 (405mm), 34 inch f16 (860mm), 25 1/4 inch f12.5 (640mm) barrel lens with its original flange. Maybe the flange on my Gundlach will fit yours.

It is the Holiday Season and Miracles do happen. :)

Let me know. Jon


Hi Jon,

Thank you very much for the kind offer. However, I have been in touch with Richard Ritter and am going to send the barrel to him to make a flange. I would feel pretty bad knowing that your Gundlach was separated from its flange!!

But my best to you for the Holiday Season and New Year.

Sandy King

[sanking]

Only a fool would clean a brass lens (unless corrosion was interfering with function). Brass makers used proprietary coatings on brass that cannot be replicated without a lot of knowledge. It also degrades the value to collectors and speeds up re-oxidation.

The issue is that the coating itself is mostly gone and I think the lens would look a lot better with it all removed, polished and perhaps re-coated with a modern type lacquer. I understand your point about collection value but I am not concerned about that.

So count me among the fools that value aesthetics along with function in their equipment.

Sandy King

[Toyon]

The issue is that the coating itself is mostly gone and I think the lens would look a lot better with it all removed, polished and perhaps re-coated with a modern type lacquer. I understand your point about collection value but I am not concerned about that.

So count me among the fools that value aesthetics along with function in their equipment.

Sandy King

People value original condition because it reflects the original construction and esthetics of the object. It shows respect for the process of aging, the patination of time and the fact that even worn down, an object is truer than any amount of post-hoc tarting up can achieve. Don't claim aesthetic criteria, there is no justification in that regard, except perhaps personal vanity.

[sanking]

Don't claim aesthetic criteria, there is no justification in that regard, except perhaps personal vanity.

First, bear in mind that I did not ask for opinions on *whether to restore* but on how to restore so I find some of your comments as unwelcome as they are opinionated.

People often avoid restoration primarily for the reason you mentioned earlier, i.e. it lowers the value to collectors. However, if value to a collector is not important to the owner, and if the owner wishes to restore the item to reflect what it originally looked like, that in itself is sufficient justification. The issue of whether to restore must be decided on a case by case basis, and as with most things in life the person who gets to make this decision is the owner.

But thanks for your opinions, and feel free to do with the things you own as you wish.

Sandy King

[Michael Jones]

People value original condition because it reflects the original construction and esthetics of the object. It shows respect for the process of aging, the patination of time and the fact that even worn down, an object is truer than any amount of post-hoc tarting up can achieve. Don't claim aesthetic criteria, there is no justification in that regard, except perhaps personal vanity.


You actually mean "collectors" value the original conditon, not users. A lens is just a tool to make an image.

Mike

[Toyon]

You actually mean "collectors" value the original conditon, not users. A lens is just a tool to make an image.

Mike

You don't get it. I am not a collector, but someone who uses old lenses. People who respect artifacts of history do not seek to change them, even while they use them. IF they are good stewards, the next person will be able to use them just as you had. You don't see people painting fine old violins in hot pink. That's because they respect the original finish and materials that went into the making a fine instrument - it is not because they care about collectors, but because they respect the hand of the maker and the esthetics of the next user - who deserves to know how the instrument was originally made. If you see lenses as only tools, I expect you see your images as mere collections of ink pigments or silver halide molecules. Clearly you need to expand your vision - a lens is a fine instrument, a hammer is a tool.

[alan-salsman]

Sandy----I would select brushing lacquer to refinish your brass lens.Keep in mind that your lens was coated before it was completely assembled.Threads sealed with lacquer are a problem you do not want to have. After the brass is polished, clean it with a cotton ball damped with alcohol.Then wear rubber gloves to keep body oil off the work. Place the work on a plate so that you can rotate the plate with one hand and brush with the other. From the top down and rotating the plate as you go ,apply a thin but complete layer.Do not touch it after it begins to tack. A 1/2 inch brush that will not drop bristles would be fine.Do not coat it again until the lacquer is very hard.You should not be able to mark it by pushing your thumb nail straight into it. However if I were going to do this I would do a couple of practice runs, using a soda can.Or a piece of brass pipe if you can find some . Have fun--Alan

[77seriesiii]

to restore or not restore, good to see that discussion has hit the lens community!

My wife was a museum designer/conservator and lived this argument ad nauseum. her view, as a restorer/designer if the piece has hit a point in its life where constant handling could cause damage, especially if the item has to be handled, has to be protected somehow. If the original was lacquered, like the old lenses, she would research how the lacquer was made, make some and test it. Once passing the criteria, she would restore the item. Remember this is for a museum, not for a piece of home furniture or equipment. So if the lacquer is coming off and these lenses are used in a variety of places, something is better than nothing. As Sandy said, do what you want with your own equipment as the inherent value only comes from the sellor and how much a buyer wishes to pay for it.

Additionally, unless you know the provenance of the item, who owned it especially throughout its 'life', its value as a historical item is limited. Provenance is key to understanding an items place in history. Technical aspect of a lens, which shoots the way we like, first of its kind, etc. is an additional price driver for us technical geeks and collectors. my .02

Happy Festivus!

Erick

[Steven Tribe]

I am sure many of us have seen badly "restored" brass objectives for sale. These have obviously often been done by the seller who has used household solutions to remove the patina, the remainder of the lacquer etc. They seem to think that the gleaming result makes up for the thousands of abbrasion lines they have added! But this is not a good reason for giving up on the idea of restoration.

Everyone has their own idea about originality and condition. I have seen many totally green brass barrels, barrels that had pitting at least as deep as the engraving as well as the many dark brown surfaces. I believe that there is nothing wrong with the right surface treatment when the barrel is going to continued to be attacked by air moisture, greasy fingers etc. In fact, I would say that the owner has a cultural obligation to stop continuing degradation. The restorer must be prepared for all sorts of shocks, like leaching/oxidation of zinc through the decades, leaving a layer of copper, of unknown thickness, as the surface.

The methods for removing lacquer, working the surface and making and applying suitable lacquer are quite freely available. If we accept rebalsaming we should also accept surface treatment for brass parts. Unfortunately, there is not the same sort of solution for the early corroded aluminium mounts!

[sanking]

Here is an update on the Gundlach Rapid Rectigrahic 26-40-56.

I sent the lens to Richard Ritter, who fabricated a flange for the lens and restored it, cleaning off the old coating and applying a new protective coating to the brass.

Attached are a couple of images, one of the lens by itself (with waterhouse stop) the other with the lens mounted on a RR 20X24" camera. It looks really nice and should be ready for another century of use.

Sandy King

[Steven Tribe]

A job well done, Sandy and Richard! More like 5 centuries. Was the balsam changed at the same time?

[sanking]

A job well done, Sandy and Richard! More like 5 centuries. Was the balsam changed at the same time?


The lens is still pretty clear and IMO the glass does not need to be cleaned and re-cemented.

Sandy King

[Tracy Storer]

EXCELLENT !!!!!
OH I can't wait to see a finished image.....so excited to see the old lens put to good use.
I bought it from a dealer near Boston at the twice a year "Photographica" show in the mid '90s....

Sandy. please keep me posted.
Tracy