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don mills
19-Dec-2009, 22:31
I have two APO Symmar lenses that need a bit of cleaning on the glass. Any suggestions for products or methods I can use to clean without scratching?

If you could give a pointer to a cleaning solution, cloth, etc, that would be ideal as I need to buy something...

I do have a microfiber cloth and regular glasses cleaning spray but I am hesitant to use them on my lenses.

Emrehan Zeybekoglu
20-Dec-2009, 01:47
Assuming that you have to clean the outside surface, I would suggest that you first use dust-off, and then gently wipe the surface with a lens cleaning cloth (Schneider, Zeiss and other brands are available) by wetting it with lens cleaning liquid (do not apply it directly on the lens) and afterwards cleaning the lens by wiping it in circular fashion.

Alan Butcher
20-Dec-2009, 06:54
From Schneider a white paper on lens cleaning.

http://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs/whitepapers/lens_cleaning.pdf

--
Alan

Bob Salomon
20-Dec-2009, 07:16
I have two APO Symmar lenses that need a bit of cleaning on the glass. Any suggestions for products or methods I can use to clean without scratching?

If you could give a pointer to a cleaning solution, cloth, etc, that would be ideal as I need to buy something...

I do have a microfiber cloth and regular glasses cleaning spray but I am hesitant to use them on my lenses.

The first step is to thourghly blow off any dust or loose material with a Giottos Rocket Blaster or compressed air from an oilless air compressor. At no time ever use canned air!
Next take a quality lens cleanining solution, Giottos, Zeiss, ROR, etc. and put a couple of drops on the back side of a lens quality micro fiber cloth (not the ones for dishes, pets or cars) and then gently rub any remaining smudges with the front side of the cloth. Buff dry with a dry clean area of the cloth, if necessary.
Blowing the lens off with a quality air blowere like the Rocket will easily do most of your cleaning unless there are fingerprints or smudges not removed by blowing.
The addition of a very high quality filter; Protection, UV or Skylight, will greatly reduce the need for cleaning the lens and high quality filters, like a Heliopan, do not materially effect the quality of the lens. Low quality filters will effect the quality.
The high quality filter will also protect the front element from dust, smoke, blowing sand, peanut butter and jelly fingers, etc. so the lens itself will remain cleaner and will need to be cleaned far less frequently. The top and rear layer on the Heliopan SH-PMC coated filters repel both dust and moisture to keep the filter cleaner as well.
The best rule is to clean a lens as infrequently as possible to reduce the possibilities of cleaning marks and damage.

johnschlicher
20-Dec-2009, 07:28
So spitting on it, and then wiping it off with you shirt isn't the best way to go?

Just kidding--couldn't resist

Ivan J. Eberle
20-Dec-2009, 08:43
Microfiber cloths are terrific for picking up fingerprints when used dry and while they're still clean. They absorb grease extremely well but not lens fluid, so they tend to just push fluid around and this can lead to oily residue air drying on the surface. It's frustrating to then try to buff that off.

What works better for me, for really grungy or old lenses, is to use Q-tips wet with isopropyl alcohol. Wet by dipping the Q-tip, sling off the drippy excess so that it doesn't wick into the cemented edges. Pick up the residue with the dry end of the Qtip. Rinse and repeat until clean.

Some spots on lenses don't easily come off with lens cleaner alone. Tree sap, and water mineral spots from splashes at the ocean's edge can often be removed with distilled water.

senderoaburrido
4-Jan-2016, 13:44
Not sure if it's taboo to revive an old thread like this, but I have some additional questions about cleaning lenses.

Is it inevitable that you will create cleaning marks? Is the name of the game mitigation and minimization?

Which cleaning fluids are the least effective at dissolving the coatings on a lens? I'm looking for a recommendation of cleaning fluid, because I am terrified of eroding the outer layers of my lenses.

Are there alternatives to microfiber cloths, or unorthodox methods that involve applying very little pressure?

What I am most afraid of is damaging the coating on my MC lenses. One came mint, excepting a thumb print. Likewise, I received some Hasselblad glass filters with serious finger smudges on them.

vinny
4-Jan-2016, 13:50
I almost never clean my lenses. I use a clean microfiber cloth and maybe some Pancro if it's nasty. Pancro is what we use in the motion picture industry on lenses which cost more than most of our cars.
You aren't going to harm your lenses.

Kirk Gittings
4-Jan-2016, 13:51
I talked to a material engineer about lens cleaning once. He said anytime there is contact between two materials there is transfer and/or damage. So the goal is to minimize the # of cleanings and use the absolute best cleaning supplies available.

senderoaburrido
4-Jan-2016, 14:02
Kirk: That is exactly what I was thinking. Friction will always incur some damage. I just want to get these smudges off. After that I am confident I keep good enough care that they won't get any again. Reading that still makes the sweat pool on my brow, though.

Just out of curiosity, how much does a minor fingerprint affect photography?

vinny
4-Jan-2016, 14:08
Kirk: That is exactly what I was thinking. Friction will always incur some damage. I just want to get these smudges off. After that I am confident I keep good enough care that they won't get any again. Reading that still makes the sweat pool on my brow, though.

Just out of curiosity, how much does a minor fingerprint affect photography?
fingerprints won't hurt anything on large format work. If it were a tiny sensor, sometimes they'll show up if direct light is falling on the lens.

Jim Jones
4-Jan-2016, 17:59
Senderoabirrido -- I would expect fingerprints to degrade the image much more than dust.

Bob Salomon gives fine advice in post #4. Prevention is far more valuable than correction. Modern high quality multi-coated filters shouldn't cause the problems I encountered with protective filters decades ago. Lens hoods, especially the efficient ones for long lenses, also provide protection. I've rarely encountered hopeless problems due to dirty lenses (except for condensation in astro-photography), but two favorite lenses were retired due to excessive and careless cleaning in the field.

senderoaburrido
4-Jan-2016, 18:20
The thing is that it's necessary in my current case. Prevention is key, and were I able to afford glass filters for each lens, that is what I would do. Right now I have to tend to these obnoxious fingerprints on these glass filters I found in a bin, and the lens that I accidentally touched myself. Luckily it was only a small print (reached around to move the aperture, recoiled as soon as I realized what I had done). I'm just ashamed and frustrated and want to fix it in the case of this latter situation.

stawastawa
12-Jul-2016, 18:32
Isopropyl isn't too strong?
then again, what IS in those lens cleaning fluids?


Microfiber cloths are terrific for picking up fingerprints when used dry and while they're still clean. They absorb grease extremely well but not lens fluid, so they tend to just push fluid around and this can lead to oily residue air drying on the surface. It's frustrating to then try to buff that off.

What works better for me, for really grungy or old lenses, is to use Q-tips wet with isopropyl alcohol. Wet by dipping the Q-tip, sling off the drippy excess so that it doesn't wick into the cemented edges. Pick up the residue with the dry end of the Qtip. Rinse and repeat until clean.

Some spots on lenses don't easily come off with lens cleaner alone. Tree sap, and water mineral spots from splashes at the ocean's edge can often be removed with distilled water.

rdenney
16-Jul-2016, 08:16
No modern coatings would be affected by alcohol, but don't get it on any plastic parts.

Noticeable cleaning marks are not inevitable. Dust and hard rubbing are the culprits here. That explains the advice to blow dust off with a bulb blower or lift it off using a sable brush (using the brush only for that purpose and and never touching the bristles means it will be a long time before it becomes too greasy). Sable brushes are available at any art store, and sable is softer than camel hair by far.

Once the dust is lifted off, I use a lens-cleaning tissue (which is lint-free paper with no wood fibers) wetted with Residual Oil Remover. I find that to be the best of the lens cleaners. I then dry by lifting the moisture off with a clean lens-cleaning tissue. If the ROR didn't remove the fingerprint, buffing won't either, but buffing risks leaving marks.

Some old lenses with early coatings are quite soft. These require much more care.

New Heliopan filters are more expensive than most of my old lenses. And if I don't want to photograph through fingerprints on the lens, why would I want to photograph through fingerprints on a filter? The filter is more vulnerable, being often less protected by the lens barrel from stray finger touches. I do not use filters for lens protection, but I do shade lenses carefully.

In my experience, it takes a lot of dust on a properly shaded lens to affect the image, but one greasy fingerprint will make noticeable flare in a contrasty image.

I have been cleaning some of my lenses when needed for 40 years without causing cleaning marks. I don't need to clean them very often, but I'm not afraid to clean them when needed.

Rick "preferring a dirty lens to risky cleaning technique" Denney

Alan Gales
16-Jul-2016, 10:13
I've always used a blower brush to remove any loose debris. I used to use lens cleaning solution on lens paper but now I use it on a Microfiber cloth.

The key is to not have to clean them. I use UV or clear filters on my lenses so I just have to clean the filters and very seldom the lens glass. I know some are opposed to shooting with a clear filter on the lens but I've never had a problem with it.

For many years I shot a Contax 35mm camera and 5 Zeiss lenses that I purchased in the 1980's. When I sold the lenses on Ebay to fund my large format hobby, I got top dollar for them and comments from the buyers of how nice they were. One buyer actually contacted me to ask how I cleaned them because the coatings on the glass looked like new. I just told him what I'm telling you.

StoneNYC
16-Jul-2016, 13:25
I use alcohol to clean the entire lens and shutter, only on modern lenses/shutters, then use water after to clear the streaking, then use a micro-fiber cloth, then blow it all out and re-assemble.

I don't trust whomever owned things before me and worry about mold spores so I use alcohol on the entire thing just to be safe.

LabRat
16-Jul-2016, 13:28
Keeping oil + contaminants off the surfaces is the key, so other stuff won't stick to it... If there is no tiny grit on them, they can be safely wiped, maybe with some of your breath (a free source of distilled water mist)... Most alcohol based cleaners absorb moisture (with minerals) from the air, and can grind those minerals into the surfaces with polishing...

For deep cleaning while the lenses are apart, someone gave me a case of Xerox copier lens/platen cleaner liquid that works well for deep cleaning... Badly hazed elements have gone into the ultrasonic cleaner to be cleaned... Distilled water + green cleaner have worked well as the ultrasonic solution...

Just make sure that all dust/grit is removed before any cleaning...

Steve K

Jim Noel
16-Jul-2016, 19:18
I have two APO Symmar lenses that need a bit of cleaning on the glass. Any suggestions for products or methods I can use to clean without scratching?

If you could give a pointer to a cleaning solution, cloth, etc, that would be ideal as I need to buy something...

I do have a microfiber cloth and regular glasses cleaning spray but I am hesitant to use them on my lenses.

First, never use a cleaning solution. No matter how you apply it, or how careful you are, eventually some will seep around the edge and cause problems with your lens.
Go to the health food store and get some capsules of Activated Charcoal soldas digestive aids. Break open some capsules int a 35mm cannister, or similar. take a Q tip and dip it into the powder, then shakee off as much as possible. Using this begin around the edge of your lens and always in a circular motion work your way to the center. Your enses will sparkle! I have used this for over 40 years and have never had a scratch on a lens, or moisture between the elements.

Jim Noel
16-Jul-2016, 19:20
fingerprints won't hurt anything on large format work. If it were a tiny sensor, sometimes they'll show up if direct light is falling on the lens.

the acid in the fingerprints will eventually cause problems with the coating.

cowanw
17-Jul-2016, 08:12
I use alcohol to clean the entire lens and shutter, only on modern lenses/shutters, then use water after to clear the streaking, then use a micro-fiber cloth, then blow it all out and re-assemble.

I don't trust whomever owned things before me and worry about mold spores so I use alcohol on the entire thing just to be safe.
For the record, Alcohol does not kill spores.

Doremus Scudder
17-Jul-2016, 11:18
Stone,

You're not using alcohol inside the clockwork mechanism of the shutter, are you? That's a pretty good way to remove the lubricant...

As for lens cleaning:

1. Read the Schneider white paper linked to above and/or the Kodak instructions (which are similar). They provide detailed procedures from those who know best. FWIW, it boils down to: gently blow or brush the dust off your lens then, using an appropriate tissue or cloth and cleaning fluid (if necessary), gently clean the lens taking care to use a clean portion of the tissue/cloth for every swipe to prevent scratching. Polish gently with a microfiber cloth if needed to remove streaks. Note that Schneider recommends several solvents depending on the type and severity of the dirt/grease on the lens.

2. Clean your lens as little as possible. Use lens caps. Protect your lens from salt spray, etc as needed with a filter.

As for scratching coatings: Modern coatings are pretty hard. Careful and infrequent cleaning should not harm them noticeably in your lifetime. Older lenses are a different matter. Most single-coated lens coatings are softer and need to be treated with extra care. If not, the coatings will scratch (that's why there are so many older lenses for sale with "cleaning marks").

A couple of observations from personal experience:
I was skeptical of the "new" microfiber cloths when they first came out (30 years ago now...). I was working in a photo store then when a sales rep came by touting the new cloths. To test out his claims I grabbed a Wratten gel filter and his demo cloth. I rubbed the gel filter like crazy, trying my best to damage it. Result: no damage at all. As long as you use a clean cloth, the microfiber cloths are really good. The main cause of damage to coatings is using a cloth or tissue with dust or grit embedded in it, which just turns it into sandpaper. Bottom line: keep your cloths clean or use a fresh tissue every time.

Also, although I know it is not recommended to breathe on your lenses, if one is very careful to only get condensation from your breath on the lens and not inadvertently spew it with saliva, that little bit of distilled water, used judiciously, makes a good and readily available cleaning fluid in the field. Don't overdo it and don't try it in below-freezing temperatures. Also, don't try to blow dust off your lens; this is what is guaranteed to get spittle on your lens. A brushing with a soft brush followed by a gentle breath of air to provide some moisture immediately wiped away by a clean tissue or cloth makes a pretty handy field cleaning kit that is especially useful when your lens has just been exposed to sea spray or other grime. FWIW, I carry a camel's-hair lipstick brush and a clean microfiber cloth with me when in the field. Better to clean such stuff up immediately rather that wait till you reach home.

And, as Bob mentions, canned air products can spew propellant all over your lens. It's much safer to use a blower and/or soft brush.

Best,

Doremus

Peter De Smidt
17-Jul-2016, 11:54
Anyone use collodion?

carylee2002
18-Jul-2016, 17:16
I use a camel hair brush on my petzvals and RR's. as for what liquid to use I use the CURA system with Micro Wiper sheets. I found this to be the best, especially highly rated in Japan. Even Bellamy Hunt aka Japan Camera Hunter endorsed it.

StoneNYC
19-Jul-2016, 00:10
Doremus, no I don't disassemble the actual shutter, just the lens elements, so not inside the actual shutter mechanism, just the surface.

The alcohol is mostly for nasty Photpgrapher finger residue, but although alcohol doesn't kill mold spores supposedly, the wiping of the surface should help. Anything is better than nothing.

Thanks.

Doremus Scudder
19-Jul-2016, 11:10
Doremus, no I don't disassemble the actual shutter, just the lens elements, so not inside the actual shutter mechanism, just the surface.

The alcohol is mostly for nasty Photpgrapher finger residue, but although alcohol doesn't kill mold spores supposedly, the wiping of the surface should help. Anything is better than nothing.

Thanks.

...and the alcohol will help evaporate any residual water. Spores are everywhere; you can't really avoid them, just make a dry enough environment so they can't grow.

Doremus

jnantz
19-Jul-2016, 12:10
Anyone use collodion?

i don't, but i have thought that using straight collodion to clean the surface of a lens might be good, at least as good as white glue.
i saw a program once where someone was cleaning a giant slab of shale with fossils of flsh in it.
he? she? ( sorry can't remember ) poured a whole bunch of white glue on it. made sure it went into ever crevice,
every nook and every cranny. let it dry clear and then peeled the (clear) sheet off. the shale was beautifully clean.
i am guessing collodion might do something similar since it drys to celluloid ... or it might be to harsh, and glue might just be a mess.

Alan Gales
19-Jul-2016, 13:31
Ever seen Sally Mann's lenses? I think she uses sandpaper. ;)

brandon13
19-Jul-2016, 21:49
Ever seen Sally Mann's lenses? I think she uses sandpaper. ;)

Yes right and that's why her prints sell for 40k-50k a piece. I doubt she really wastes her time geeking out about having a perfectly clean lens. Anyway my camera repair guy worked in an optical lab for most of his life making fancy really big scientific shit like telescopes and he only uses Kimtech Kimwipes (non scratch chemical wipe tissues) and ROR spray(Residual Oil Remover) so that's what I use and it's what they also sell at the local photo supply here in Portland so that's what I use. Whether the lens is from 1869 or 1999. Also I try to clean as little as possible. Once when I buy the lens and hopefully years later and only if I have to. Cheers.

Willie
20-Jul-2016, 05:41
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/64495-REG/ROR_RO212D_Residual_Oil_Remover.html
Got this from my Uncle who has used it for a few decades now. That and new cotton balls to clean his lenses.

Alan Gales
20-Jul-2016, 18:11
Yes right and that's why her prints sell for 40k-50k a piece. I doubt she really wastes her time geeking out about having a perfectly clean lens. Anyway my camera repair guy worked in an optical lab for most of his life making fancy really big scientific shit like telescopes and he only uses Kimtech Kimwipes (non scratch chemical wipe tissues) and ROR spray(Residual Oil Remover) so that's what I use and it's what they also sell at the local photo supply here in Portland so that's what I use. Whether the lens is from 1869 or 1999. Also I try to clean as little as possible. Once when I buy the lens and hopefully years later and only if I have to. Cheers.

I saw a video she made where she said that she liked old lenses with imperfections. The imperfections give the lenses more character or something like that. Her lenses may look rough but she sure creates wonderful images with them!

Peter De Smidt
20-Jul-2016, 19:07
Just speaking from my experience, ROR is very good. I used it for years, but I now prefer Purosol: http://www.edmundoptics.com/lab-production/cleaning/lens-cleaners-pouches/purosol-optical-cleaner/2520/.

seezee
21-Jul-2016, 13:10
I blow with a Giottos rocket & then use a LenPen (http://www.lenspen.com/home/) (and on my filters, a LensPen FilterKlear). They use activated charcoal, as mentioned in a previous post, and include a soft brush at the other end. My only gripe is there's not cap for the brush, so keeping it from contamination is problematic.

I also keep a Photographic Solutions (http://photosol.com/) cleaning kit handy as it comes with disposable lens wipes & cleaning solution.

In 99% of cases, the dust and dirt on your lens has zero affect on your images (although the acid in fingerprints may etch the coating or glass, as has also been noted above). But neither do "cleaning marks" (light scratches). So don't get too obsessed about it.