Tray Processing Faults

[jeroldharter]

I have been dabbling at tray processing lately for 8x10 film (TMY2). So far it is like ripping up $5 bills but I am just getting started. I figure I have 100 sheets to ruin before it costs more than a Jobo drum.

My goal is to process up to 6 sheets at a time, but so far I have used just 2-3. I discovered the importance of a pre-soak in the mottled areas of what should have been uniform, light density. I have not had a chance to scrutinize the negatives yet, but to the naked eye they had no scratches from mishandling.

The most noticeable defect in the negative was from a combination of two problems. First, I used an 8x10 tray so I never rotated the stack. That meant that my hands were always in the same position relative to the film. It looked like the temperature of my fingers through the latex gloves was significantly warmer than the 68 degree developer so I found an area of increased density where my fingers were placed to lift the bottom sheet of the stack. I would not have noticed this except I was doing BTZS tests and the density was visible in the faintest negative.

Is this a common problem? I wonder if it would be mitigated by rotating the stack in a larger tray so that the local temp change from my hands would be divided by the 4 sides of the negative. Also, with a stack of 6 instead of 2 the problem would be reduced by an additional 67%.

I really like the simplicity of tray processing and hope I can be ready for prime time soon so any tips are appreciated. I have searched a lot of posts already.

[Matt Miller]

A bigger tray, rotating the negatives, and developing more at once will definitely help. Your instincts are right on. If you must use 8x10 trays, you can rotate the whole stack 180 degrees now and then. That will help too.

[Matt Miller]

Either that, or develop at 98.6 :)

[Greg Blank]

I would go to one size bigger tray than 8x10, or still use the 8x10. You don't want much bigger or the sheets slide off into various directions. Its not advised to continously handle the film. You do typically stack the sheets and replace the bottom to the top with periodic increments, thus giving the film agitation. I never liked tray processing so I bought a Jobo I have succesful negs though from tray processing.

Steve Simmons of View Camera magazine swears by it along with Various other notable photographers. The View Camera magazine website used to have a free give out on the technique uses.

If I was going back to tray processing and you never know, I might try making a special holder for four sheets to do at once in a 16x20 tray. Unless you are batching like exposures I would not do multiple sheets (probably a no duh :) .






I have been dabbling at tray processing lately for 8x10 film (TMY2). So far it is like ripping up $5 bills but I am just getting started. I figure I have 100 sheets to ruin before it costs more than a Jobo drum.

My goal is to process up to 6 sheets at a time, but so far I have used just 2-3. I discovered the importance of a pre-soak in the mottled areas of what should have been uniform, light density. I have not had a chance to scrutinize the negatives yet, but to the naked eye they had no scratches from mishandling.

The most noticeable defect in the negative was from a combination of two problems. First, I used an 8x10 tray so I never rotated the stack. That meant that my hands were always in the same position relative to the film. It looked like the temperature of my fingers through the latex gloves was significantly warmer than the 68 degree developer so I found an area of increased density where my fingers were placed to lift the bottom sheet of the stack. I would not have noticed this except I was doing BTZS tests and the density was visible in the faintest negative.

Is this a common problem? I wonder if it would be mitigated by rotating the stack in a larger tray so that the local temp change from my hands would be divided by the 4 sides of the negative. Also, with a stack of 6 instead of 2 the problem would be reduced by an additional 67%.

I really like the simplicity of tray processing and hope I can be ready for prime time soon so any tips are appreciated. I have searched a lot of posts already.

[Heroique]

I really like the simplicity of tray processing and hope I can be ready for prime time soon so any tips are appreciated. I have searched a lot of posts already.

I really like it, too. Yet, you may soon be hearing more about "slosher" trays.

In addition to Matt and Greg's guidance, here's a little more about controlling finger-induced temperature changes from AA's The Negative. The trick works for me when I'm not using sloshers:

"Since you will be immersing your fingers in the developer solution, the warmth of your hands will tend to raise its temperature; this effect can be minimized by using a reasonably large volume of developer and by keeping a tank of cold water nearby in which to dip your fingers prior to each manipulation in the developer."

[jeroldharter]

I really like it, too. Yet, you may soon be hearing more about "slosher" trays.

In addition to Matt and Greg's guidance, here's a little more about controlling finger-induced temperature changes from AA's The Negative. The trick works for me when I'm not using sloshers:

"Since you will be immersing your fingers in the developer solution, the warmth of your hands will tend to raise its temperature; this effect can be minimized by using a reasonably large volume of developer and by keeping a tank of cold water nearby in which to dip your fingers prior to each manipulation in the developer."

I am tempted to use a 16 x 20 slosher tray but then I worry about temperature control. How do you deal with that? I suspect that in the end I will deal with temperature control by ignoring it for the most part by starting at 68 degrees and using my compensating timer.

[jeroldharter]

Anybody have a source for the 16x20 slosher for 4 8x10's? I can't find it at photographer's formulary.

[Heroique]

Just for reference, below is the slosher for 8x10 sheets.

As you can see, sloshers help eliminate temperature changes due to fingers.

Just as helpful, they reduce scratches caused by shuffling film. :)

If you’re concerned about temperature changes due to the air, or the surface on which your trays rest, one additional idea is to place your developer tray (or slosher/developer tray combo) into a larger water-bath tray. That should help control temperature changes, too.

Here’s a useful thread (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=52936) I remember about open-tray development, including a lot about avoiding scratches, using sloshers, and regulating temperatures.

[jeroldharter]

Just for reference, below is the slosher for 8x10 sheets.

As you can see, sloshers help eliminate temperature changes due to fingers.

Just as helpful, they reduce scratches caused by shuffling film. :)

If you’re concerned about temperature changes due to the air, or the surface on which your trays rest, one additional idea is to place your developer tray (or slosher/developer tray combo) into a larger water-bath tray. That should help control temperature changes, too.

Here’s a useful thread (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=52936) about open-tray development, including a lot about avoiding scratches, using sloshers, and regulating temperatures.

I have similar sloshers for 4x5. Are the 8x10 sloshers still available?

[Peter Spangenberg]

I use a container of ice water to periodically dip my fingers in. I usually limit to 6 max at a time, and prefer emulsion down. Instead of turning the negatives, I turn the whole tray. I prefer to use an 8x10 tray for 8x10 negatives to keep them from getting misaligned. I have never tried a jobo because I develop by inspection. Not recommended for TMY, but works great with HP5.

[uhner]

Unless you are wedded to learning tray development, or want to develop more than two or perhaps three sheets at the same time, I suggest you get some btzs 8x10 tubes. In my opinion they are as easy to use as the 4x5 ones.

I have not tried handling more than two of these tubes simultaneously, but I believe that you have to grow an extra pair of arms or coerce someone to help you if you want to use more than three tubes at the same time.

I might add that the pair I bought had not the same quality as the smaller ones and they had some burrs that scratched the film. This problem was easily solved with some fine grit abrasive paper.

[jeroldharter]

Unless you are wedded to learning tray development, or want to develop more than two or perhaps three sheets at the same time, I suggest you get some btzs 8x10 tubes. In my opinion they are as easy to use as the 4x5 ones.

I have not tried handling more than two of these tubes simultaneously, but I believe that you have to grow an extra pair of arms or coerce someone to help you if you want to use more than three tubes at the same time.

I might add that the pair I bought had not the same quality as the smaller ones and they had some burrs that scratched the film. This problem was easily solved with some fine grit abrasive paper.

I normally use BTZS tubes which I prefer to the Jobo because I can develop each sheet for a different time, potentially with a different developer as well (but I almost never do that). The 8x10 tubes are huge though and I was hoping to simplify my processing by using trays. It may be that I burn through a bunch of film simply to re-confirm that tubes are the way to go!

[Nathan Potter]

When I first started with LF, 4X5, 8X10, I used film hangers for tray development. I bent the hanger part up about 60 degrees from the surface of the tray so that fingers never touched the solution. I could clip one on top of the other or use them side by side in a larger tray. Adjust times for the room temperature and the system is pretty stabile. Agitate as desired. I'll still do this on occasion since I have all these old bent stainless hangers hanging around. A lot of that was done with Pan X and Microdol or D76.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.