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View Full Version : Ilex #5 Synchro shutter stalling on 1s and 1/2s



Dirk Rösler
15-Dec-2009, 17:43
Is this something that can be fixed DIY or better not touch it? My alternative is a $200 overhaul... :o

Jan Pedersen
15-Dec-2009, 18:16
Dirk, It is posibly just a cleaning. If the shutter has been inactive for some time the two or three slowest speed settings which are running on their own clockwork tend to gum up over time. Before attemting to make any surgery you could take the cover of and with a hair dryer gently warm up the little clockwork that is located around 5 a clock when looking at the shutter from the front. If this does not change the timing you could be in for a CLA.

Dirk Rösler
15-Dec-2009, 18:20
Thanks. Previous owner told me he bought the lens in the 90s and has since always used with the Sinar shutter. Could indeed have been unused for quite a while. The shutter looks clean and nice from the outside, so I don't think it was abused.

Glenn Thoreson
15-Dec-2009, 18:37
Those are a pretty simple shutter and not hard to clean. Take the cover off. Lift off the speed ring and you will see the clockwork delay mechanism. You can do a basic cleaning of it with some Q-tips and Naptha ( lighter fluid). Just wipe the escapement down with the naptha. The little axles on the bottom side can usually be moistened with a toothpick and a drop of fluid. Moisten all the little gear train and run it through the one second speed several times. Dab off any excess fluid and repeat. What it doesn't completely remove will be moistened and brought back to life. Don't get anything on the shutter blades. Try it before you send it out. Patience, a gentle touch and don't drown it. Good luck. :D

Vick Vickery
15-Dec-2009, 21:48
Contact Carol at flutotscamerarepair.com for a CLA; she's very reasonable and an excellent craftsman. I've had her do a couple of shutters for me and I've been very pleased with her work.

Vick Vickery
15-Dec-2009, 21:51
Oops, didn't notice that you are in Japan...shipping might run the cost up a bit! :)

Dirk Rösler
15-Dec-2009, 22:11
Thanks - unfortunately the lens just came from the US, but it was not noticed until it arrived here.

Dirk Rösler
16-Dec-2009, 05:17
Those are a pretty simple shutter and not hard to clean. Take the cover off. Lift off the speed ring and you will see the clockwork delay mechanism. You can do a basic cleaning of it with some Q-tips and Naptha ( lighter fluid). Just wipe the escapement down with the naptha. The little axles on the bottom side can usually be moistened with a toothpick and a drop of fluid. Moisten all the little gear train and run it through the one second speed several times. Dab off any excess fluid and repeat. What it doesn't completely remove will be moistened and brought back to life. Don't get anything on the shutter blades. Try it before you send it out. Patience, a gentle touch and don't drown it. Good luck. :D

I don't have lighter fluid here now, would it be OK to use cleaning alcohol instead?

Also when taking off the cover and then speed ring, I only see a small window with the returning arm/control (and an even smaller one with the B/T switch control). Is it OK just to work on that small window or do I need to take the next thick metal ring cover off as well (held by three screws)?

Gene McCluney
16-Dec-2009, 10:30
You can use cleaning alcohol. My preference for My shutter cleaning is aerosol can of Electronic Contact cleaner, residue free. It evaporates completely, thus leaving no issues with the shutter blades. My preference is to flood-clean saturating everything and operating the mechanism multiple times, then allow the shutter to dry out. Should work ok THEN. Note: Don't get the type of contact cleaner that has a lubricant.

Gene McCluney
16-Dec-2009, 10:32
Also when taking off the cover and then speed ring, I only see a small window with the returning arm/control (and an even smaller one with the B/T switch control). Is it OK just to work on that small window or do I need to take the next thick metal ring cover off as well (held by three screws)?

Yes, you need to take the next thick metal ring cover off. It then exposes the whole clockwork. Don't worry, on a #5 nothing will fall out.

Louis Pacilla
16-Dec-2009, 11:15
Hi Dirk

NO. Not Alcohol. It's not going to work. It won't break down the old grease or lube down. Alcohol will simply make things wet for a second.

You need a solvent that will break the old lube down.This is the reason (most of time) for the timer gear's not running properly This lube gets gunked up over time. when you use a chemical like Naphtha(lighter fluid) it kind of re-lubes the gears when you apply in small quantities.
Look closely, study the whole shutter works. Make sure you apply to the timer gearing as well as a little on the shutter release area. This will break the little chunk's of the lube down & then allows the timer gearing & all other lubed parts to run smoothly. Works about 80% of the time. From the sounds of it. your #5 will run fine after this procedure.

You may beable to have a friend from the states send you a couple of bottles . I imagine if they pack it right & kind of forget to mention what is in the package. It would arrive safely

I believe all playing w/ older camera gear CAN NOT DO WITH OUT. I would never live anywhere I could not get lighter fluid. That's how much I use the stuff:eek: .

BTW -if the lens has great value $$$ you know like a 16 1/2 " dagor. That kind of value. You may want to send out to Carol or any other good repair person. I can't imagine you'll have trouble finding a repair man/woman in Japan.
On the other hand, if it's a lens you received good deal on this shutter/lens. You may want to give self repair a try. Like I said , I have returned many a poorly running shutter's back to running well.
Also if you test the shutter times after wards, do not be surprised if the high speeds are not quit as fast as a 50th of a second. Most are around 35ths a second & all times are a bit different than listed. I have sent #5 Ilex shutters to Carol & SK Grimes. all have been sent back w/ the times a little off (very close though). I have the time test to prove this. So don't be discouraged if after you fix it not dead nuts. Just the nature of the Ilex acme #5:( . If you need spot on get a
Only a problem is w/ E6 or digital.because of the tight exposure latitude. All you have to do is compensate for the differing times of the shutter.

Peace
Louis

Matt Miller
16-Dec-2009, 12:03
My preference is to flood-clean saturating everything and operating the mechanism multiple times, then allow the shutter to dry out.

This is how I've done it too. I've successfully cleaned two Ilex shutters this way, with Naptha, and they're running beautifully now.

Glenn Thoreson
16-Dec-2009, 12:52
You can get Naptha at the paint store. You don't need much. It's easier to just flood the whole thing but it depends on what the aperture blades are made of. Many shutters, at one time or another, used composite materials for the aperture blades. For the shutter blades, too, sometimes. If you have any composite materials in the shutter, flooding it can ruin them. In any event, be sure the lens cells are removed before you do anything. Never lube an Ilex shutter, either. They were made to run dry. If you lube them, it can make them very inconsistent.

Dirk Rösler
16-Dec-2009, 17:32
Hi all, thanks for all the advice. Well, call me feeble but I have just put everything back together and will have it done properly at the next opportunity. Better sell something unneeded and finance a proper repair. The lens is a Kodak Portrait 305 and definitely not something I want to ruin. I did the hairdryer and even after a night in a cool room the two settings now run through, not smooth but they run. But it is obvious that attention is needed. I will speak to my repair person "Mr Copal" about it, he is the best in Japan, but not inexpensive...