Not a Noob but, feeling like one.

[Pawlowski6132]

I finally decided to have a go at establishing my PEI but, I am having a hard time connecting the dots between the instructions and the controls on my shutter.

Also, I have been cross referencing a few different sources (Picker's Zone VI Workshop, Picker's "Negative" video and Simons' "A Simple Way to Test for Film Speed...") and the inconsistencies in instructions are confusing me to a point of paralysis.

For example, in the Zone Zi workshop, the initial instructions are:

To set your camera according to the meter's Zone V f-stop/aperture combination and then stop down four stops to the Zone I setting. So far so good, let's say that my meter reading was EV6 for ISO 400 film. I'll use an f/11 1/8 setting. I then will stop down to f/11 1/125.

Then it says, "Change the ASA speed setting on your meter to twice the manufacturer's recommendation. Make another Zone I exposure." So, will my next exposure be
*f/11 1/250?

Then, "Make a third at 75% of the rating, and another Zone I exposure wih the meter set 1/2 of the rated speed of the film."

Will I then have consecutive more explosures at
*f/11 1/60 ~ 125 and
*f/11 1/60

I guess I'm wondering how I translate "...75% of the rating..." to an fstop and shutter speed???


thanx much in advance Oh-Wise-Ones


Joe

[John Bowen]

Joe,

The easy answer is to follow Picker's instruction in the "Negative" video. Picker wrote in his newsletters that he wished he had written that section of the Zone VI Workshop more clearly. You are not the 1st to be confused.

Good luck,

John

[Pawlowski6132]

Joe,

The easy answer is to follow Picker's instruction in the "Negative" video. Picker wrote in his newsletters that he wished he had written that section of the Zone VI Workshop more clearly. You are not the 1st to be confused.

Good luck,

John

That's what I thought at first too. Here are some questions that remain unanswered though after watching the video about twelve times:

1. Is it necessary to use a very dark subject?
2. How many explosure dshould I need to make for the test???? It doesn't mention this at all.
3. After following his steps and recording the exposure settings as he goes along, he mentions his last exposure was at a 800 ISO rating. I say it was at a 400 ISO setting. Hmmm.

Here is a summary of the exposures in his test:

EV9, Zone V, ISO 100 (rated at ISO 400), f/2.8 1/60

Exposures, reducing explosure in 1/2 stop increments:

(1) Zone I = f/11, 1/60
(2) f/11~16, 1/60
(3) f/16, 1/60 (ISO 200)
(4) f/11~16, 1/125
(5) f/16, 1/125

"...and the last one in the series was at ASA 800."

So, I thought, he's wrong and I DO understand this or, he's right and I DON'T understand it.

[Renato Tonelli]

Joe - I've had to do this a couple of times and time No. 3 is coming up as I will be changing developer. It is time consuming, film consuming and yes, somewhat confusing. I have kept careful notes where I tried to resolve the contradictions you speak of. I have them on my office computer and could send them to you. I do remember this:

I use a large black card in full shade as the dark subject.
I figure out thirds, halves, etc. not by the f/stop but by setting the appropriate ISO/EI number on the meter.

Getting the correct EI will be fairly painless compared to nailing down the developing time. But don't be discouraged - it will be well worth the time effort and money.

[John Bowen]

Joe,

Is it necessary to use a very dark subject? Fred recommends a very dark subject so that your Zone I exposure is close to what it would be in the real world. Were you to place a white card in sun, your Zone I exposure might be something like 1/1000 @ f/16. I would use a very dark subject in shade.

How many exposures? Five exposures + one unexposed sheet for Film base + fog = six sheets. I don't have the video at my finger tips, but I think you have it correct that the last exposure is ISO 400.

The important thing is to keep careful notes of what you do so you will know which negative relates to which ISO.

[ic-racer]

1. Is it necessary to use a very dark subject?
If your zone 1 exposure settings are similar to what you will use for a picture, then non-linearities in metering and exposure will less likely to interfere with the results.



2. How many explosure dshould I need to make for the test???? It doesn't mention this at all.
Well, one exposure could nail it. Try 1/2 the box speed.


3. After following his steps and recording the exposure settings as he goes along, he mentions his last exposure was at a 800 ISO rating. I say it was at a 400 ISO setting. Hmmm.



According to what you posted, you are correct.

[Stefan Findel]

I have been using the zone system for over 20 yrs on LF, and this is what I advise:
1. Set meter to film manufacturer's rating.
2. Forget Zone I.
3. Forget Zone II.
4. Zone III is important. This is where you want dark shadows with discernible detail. So: Find an area (I like dark wood siding) that you would expect to be in Zone III, take a meter reading, expose 2 stops less from what your meter says (meter ALWAYS gives you a zone V reading). Do a second exposure 1 stop less than your meter reading.
5. Process normal.
6. With a neg in enlarger find the minimal exposure time where the film edge gives you max black on your paper.
7. At that exposure time print both negs and see where you get a Zone III the way YOU expect it to look. if it is the first neg (2 stops under reading), your PEI is same as manufacturer's, if (probably) second neg, your ASA is half that rating. YOU might want even more exposure on the neg.
8. Zone I and Zone II (and most other zones) 'fall' wherever they fall. I and II mostly dependent on what toe your particular film has. Only other zone to be concerned with is around VII (= highlites with detail). That is to be taken care of with development time.

[Stefan Findel]

Additionally this might help for whoever is looking for advice in this thread:
For your PEI (personal exposure index) concentrate on Zone III exclusively.
This involves your meter, film, developer, enlarger, and paper, the whole chain of materials. (Make sure the shutter speeds of the lens you use are OK)
If in doubt, lean towards more exposure rather than less.
Because modern films (my experience is with TMax) take a surprising amount of exposure, that is well printable. If Ansel Adams et al had had OUR material at their disposal, they would have been less worried about contrast. Nowadays you can expose for Zone III, develop your film normal (= manufacturer's data) and still be able to print a Zone XII on a good VC paper with nice tones. Of course when you do read a Zone XII, you may opt to do a minus development. But I am often frustrated with the results, as that cuts local contrast to somewhat unrealistic (flat) looking values.

[ki6mf]

Jerry Orabona has a explanation for several methods of doing film speed tests at this
URL:http://www.jerryo.com/teaching.htm

Look for the Film Speed link.