Is this a good deal on a Sinar F1?

[TMac]

Hi everybody,

New here to the Large Format Photography Forum.

After using a rental 4x5 camera for a few months, I really enjoyed it and am looking to purchase one. (I'm a student at Brooks Institute)

I found a deal on Craigslist which includes a Sinar F, a rail extension, a Rodenstock 4x loupe, 5 film holders, a lens hood, cable release, and a Manfrotto tripod with a 3 way head. I talked him down from the original offer to $800.

Is this a good deal?

[Wayne Crider]

Sometimes when I'm looking to compare pricing I'll look at KEH.com and if the price is under theirs I figure that based on same condition it's a deal. But I prefer to actually see the item for sale. Most people would probably compare pricing at Ebay, but at that site you take your chances and returns while possible are iffy. There are some decent dealers, but not everyones idea of Exc. condition is the same and at KEH at least we all kind of know what we're getting, plus there's a return policy. Right now KEH has an F1 body with chrome rail advertised in Exc condition for $310. Based on the $500 difference, I think I could buy everything else but the extension rail new, or for less used, and get the stuff I really want. The tripod and the head would be of concern depending on what they are. You might Ebay price the extension rail and add up the prices. Luck

[Frank Petronio]

Yeah you can do better, that's more like $500 worth of stuff, not knowing what the tripod is but allow $100 for an older tripod.

[Ron Marshall]

What Frank said.

[TMac]

Good looking out all, I was a bit weary on the offer to begin with, but he was persistent in pursuing me to buy it.

Time to look elsewhere I guess.

The tripod is only worth about $150 used anyway.

[neil poulsen]

Yeah, I've seen these go for $250. (But, that's pretty rare.)

How important is it that you be able to backpack a camera? Do you care whether it's a monorail or flatbed 4x5? What kind of photography do you want to do with a 4x5?

[Darin Boville]

There is one on e-bay from Shutterblade (never done business with them) for BIN $350. Another on auction at $199 + $50 shipping. But I'm no Sinar expert!

--Darin

[TMac]

Yeah, I've seen these go for $250. (But, that's pretty rare.)

How important is it that you be able to backpack a camera? Do you care whether it's a monorail or flatbed 4x5? What kind of photography do you want to do with a 4x5?

It's not too important, but a camera where the standards can fold flat would be nice. I definitely would want a view camera, as I don't plan to backpack too much with it.

I plan mainly to do portrait work with it; in the studio or on-location. I'll probably use it with strobes a lot. Also some tabletop work as well.

[Allen in Montreal]

Tmac,

That is too much for an F,
If you wait it out, some F2s sell rather low when there are a few listed at once.
I bought an F2 with a hard case, an Apo Sironon 210mm, extension rail, loupe, releases, and few other odds and ends for $500.00. But it took time to find one.

Take a good look at Cambo too, there have been some nice ones sell very low lately.
I have 2 Cambos and a Sinar, the Cambo can hold it own and the rotating back is better on the Cambo than the Sinar. Just a thought. :)

[Joseph Dickerson]

Tmac,

You didn't say what you talked him down to...and you'll still need a lens.

Have you tried Samy's? I've had students pick up very good deals from Charles in the large format department, I teach over the hill in Santa Maria. Don't pay the marked price, ask if they can do better. They usually can/will.

You won't go wrong with a Sinar, and if you want something else later, you'll get your money back.

Joe D.

[rdenney]

Have you tried Samy's? I've had students pick up very good deals from Charles in the large format department, I teach over the hill in Santa Maria. Don't pay the marked price, ask if they can do better. They usually can/will.

I've been happy with my dealings with Samy's, but after going through several of their F and F1 front and rear standards, I have concluded that their Sinar lore is a little weak. If you can go and and look at the stuff in person, you'll do fine. But doing it by mail required a lot of shipping back and forth, with the ultimate conclusion that they didn't have what I wanted (and what I thought I was buying). Some of their Sinar stuff was cobbled together from left-over parts of different generations of equipment, possibly by the people from whom they received those parts. They are good people, though--they covered all shipping costs both ways and I would recommend them highly, as long as you know what you are buying.

Rick "who would deal with them again" Denney

[Joseph Dickerson]

Agree with Rick. My assumption is that as a Brookie you're in Santa Barbara.

Any camera bought long distance carries with it some risk. Unlike cars, which can be painted and detailed, a beat up camera probably will look beat up.

Buying in person is always better, not always possible, but sometimes, almost always, occasionally, mostly better.

And a Happy Beethoven's Birthday to everyone!

Joe D.

[adevoe]

I'm a student as well (School of the Art Institute of Chicago) and was recently in the same situation. I was looking for a used Sinar system. I would have to agree, based on what I got with the posters above.

I got the following for about $1100, shipped:

A GORGEOUS Sinar F1
Sinar Mechanical Shutter + Cables for it.
Schneider-Kreuznach 90mm f/8 in DB mount
Schneider-Kreuznach 210mm f/5.6 in DB mount
Schneider-Kreuznach 210mm f/5.6 in shutter
Hardsided Sinar Brand Case for the camera
4 film holders
2 Grafmatic film cartridges
Reflex Viewing Hood
Normal and Bag Bellows
120 Rollfilm Back
(Useless) 545 Polaroid Pro Holder
GIANT metal studio tripod
Linhoff Pan/Tilt Head
Changing Bag

...And some things I'm probally forgetting. All is in excellent condition too.

My best advice, having done exactly what you're doing: Wait for the right deal. I got really anxious/excited to get my own gear and wanted to jump on a couple auctions, but my patience paid off. Keep looking, and good luck!!

[rdenney]

I got the following for about $1100, shipped:

The deal you got wasn't just good, it was spectacular. Don't expect that deal to be a common experience.

F1 in good condition: $300-400.
Sinar Auto-Aperture shutter with cables: $350-500.
SA 90/8 in DB: $200
Symmar 210 in DB: $200
Symmar 210 in shutter: $300
Rainbow case: $100 in decent condition
Bag bellows: $50
Rollfilm back (depending on which one): $200-600
Tripod: $100
Linhof head: $200

These would be very good prices, and so I think you paid $1100 for a coupla grand worth of stuff in today's market. That is really beyond excellent.

Rick "who has kept recent tabs on the prices of used Sinar stuff" Denney

[adevoe]

Oh, I know I got quite the deal. The original sale was "for local pickup in Atlanta only", but the seller got no bids. I had contacted him, asking if he would ship it during the auction time, but he said no. Guess who I get an email from 2 weeks later? Needless to say, I got a fantastic deal.

I guess my point was just that waiting paid-off (big time!) for me. I was keeping tabs on every place selling LF gear I knew of and just got lucky I guess. Watch all the sources you can find, and hopefully something great like this will come along...

Alex "Lucky (and happy) as Hell" DeVoe

[robertojoven]

For whatever it's worth, I purchased a used Sinar F1 off a Brooks student who apparently only used the camera for a few semesters (at most) for $900. It came with 5 or 6 film holders, a Nikkor 210, Fujinon 90mm, loupe, red and yellow filters, cable release, hood, and other small accessories. I loved the camera all through my LF class and have been using it ever since for my personal work. It truly is a great machine.

[Darryl Baird]

Igor Cameras in Cleveland always has a decent selection of Sinar.

[Darryl Baird]

I've been happy with my dealings with Samy's, but after going through several of their F and F1 front and rear standards, I have concluded that their Sinar lore is a little weak. If you can go and and look at the stuff in person, you'll do fine. But doing it by mail required a lot of shipping back and forth, with the ultimate conclusion that they didn't have what I wanted (and what I thought I was buying). Some of their Sinar stuff was cobbled together from left-over parts of different generations of equipment, possibly by the people from whom they received those parts. They are good people, though--they covered all shipping costs both ways and I would recommend them highly, as long as you know what you are buying.

Rick "who would deal with them again" Denney

I had to return a Sinar P rear standard to Samy's which was misidentified... they aren't experts.

[Darryl Baird]

I bought two complete F cameras and accessories for under $300 (each) last year (for my school). Prices have jumped up by 50-100 for similar deals, but they are still excellent deals. There are a lot of Frankenstein Sinar cameras out there put together (and sold) by people who don't know the system... I bought a few and have learned to compare to the Sinar catalog when possible. I also have gotten excellent advise on this forum. I know own all the Sinar gear I ever dreamed of but couldn't previously afford. Long live digital, the destroyer of pricing structures in exotic LF.