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jeroldharter
7-Dec-2009, 18:03
Current Paper Comparison Test

First, I apologize for being wordy.

Some years ago I decided to standardize on a single paper for most of my printing. At the time, I made a standard straight print on many of the available papers, few of which are available today. I tested Forte, Luminos, Zone VI Brilliant, Kodak Polymax FA, and Ilford MG. After blind comparison, I chose Kodak Polymax as my paper (I was secretly hoping for something more exotic but Kodak won fair and square.) Then, of course, Kodak promptly announced its exit from the paper business. I did a quick test of a few others and went with Kentmere Fineprint VC FB paper.

Some years have passed and I thought it was time to sample the Freestyle catalog and do another paper comparison. For film, I use BTZS methods with good results. I admit that for paper I am a bit more lax and simply print what looks good to me. So this paper test was fairly subjective. I chose a scene of a black lava flow from Hawaii that was abstract and therefore open to interpretation of how the print should look. I printed it straight with just subtle edge burning. I use TMAX film developed in XTOL 1:1. For printing I use a Beseler Dichro 45S light source and a Schneider Apo-Componon 150 mm lens. The developer is Zone VI for 2 minutes. Selenium toning was somewhat arbitrary but I chose a dilution of 1:20 for 2 minutes. I made two prints on each paper, one for selenium toning and the other un-toned. I used the following 8x10 papers:


Adox MCC 110
Adox Vario Classic
Fomabrom variable contrast
Fomatone MG (a warmtone paper with velvet surface)
Kentmere Fineprint VC FB
Ilford MG IV FB
Oriental Warmtone
Varycon


I tried to print all of them at the same density and same contrast. The scene required about grade 3 filtration. I used the same filtration on all of the papers except two. Some observations:
Kentmere is the least contrasty and the fastest of the group
Ilford is the contrastiest of the group
The warmtone papers, Oriental Warmtone and Fomatone MG, are by far the slowest

After drying, I laid out the prints on the kitchen table which is well lit. I arranged them in pairs with the untoned version on top and the toned version on the bottom. Then I used a panel of three people (my wife, my 10 year old daughter, and myself) one at a time and blinded to the others to judge the prints on these characteristics:


Coldest: Kentmere (unanimous), followed by Ilford
Warmest: Fomabrom (unanimous)
Flattest: Kentmere
Curliest: Varycon and Ilford
Most responsive to selenium toner: Kentmere, Varycon
Least responsive to selenium toner: Ilford, Fomabrom
Favorite: Kentmere, Kentmere, Adox MCC 110
Least Favorite: Adox MCC 110, Fomabrom, Ilford


The two warmtone papers, Oriental and Fomatone MG, were very similar. Each had a yellowish paper base which diminished after drying. Each printed as a rather off-putting greenish-yellow black when untoned. Each was extremely responsive to toner and yielded a very nice brown-black final tone. I think these are both excellent warmtone papers even though I almost always prefer cold tone papers for my prints. I preferred the Oriental because it has a glossy surface rather than the “velvet” surface of the Fomatone MG which feels a bit like sandpaper and causes a slight loss of snap to the image.

For the other papers, the Varycon, Fomabrom, and Adox Vario Classic were very similar with Fomabrom being the warmest black of the bunch.

I was pleased that I preferred the Kentmere paper because it confirms my previous bias and I recently bought a huge supply! But I also realized that all of the papers were excellent and I felt confident that I could print well with any of them. So these are my verdicts:


Adox MCC 110 – ranked both favorite and least favorite! Slightly warm tone.
Adox Vario Classic, Fomabrom, Varycon - “middle of the road” papers. Varycon the cheapest.
Ilford MG IV FB – contrasty, cold toned, most expensive
Kentmere FP VC – unanimous favorite print, coldest when selenium toned, inexpensive
Fomatone MG – great warmtone paper with velvet surface, chocolate black with selenium
Oriental Warmtone - favorite warmtone paper with glossy surface, chocolate black with selenium


These are just my thoughts from a very un-scientific test. More like a wine tasting than a rigorous comparison but I thought it was fun.

Toyon
7-Dec-2009, 18:34
Did you use old Oriental WT or new Oriental WT. The new one is extremely warm. Also, you missed one of my favorite, Ilford Warmtone. I never really liked regular Ilford, but the warmtone is beautiful.

jeroldharter
7-Dec-2009, 19:10
I think it must be new Oriental Warmtone as I just bought it.

I have tried Ilford Warmtone in the past and did not like it but I never really got a feel for it. I have used Berger Warmtone which is very nice but expensive (like Ilford) and not currently available.

Richard M. Coda
7-Dec-2009, 19:23
I'll second the Ilford for warmtone, even though I'm an Oriental guy for cold tone (except for the Kodak Elite I still have stashed). Oriental WT is a close second.

Ilford WT is very flexible depending on developer and dilution. You can get a cold tone print from it using a cold tone developer (or 1:1 from a multi-dilution developer like Ethol LPD).

YMMV

bob carnie
8-Dec-2009, 06:14
Third for Ilford warmtone,

I'll second the Ilford for warmtone, even though I'm an Oriental guy for cold tone (except for the Kodak Elite I still have stashed). Oriental WT is a close second.

Ilford WT is very flexible depending on developer and dilution. You can get a cold tone print from it using a cold tone developer (or 1:1 from a multi-dilution developer like Ethol LPD).

YMMV

J Ney
8-Dec-2009, 07:34
Regardless of any of that... thanks so much for taking the time to post all this information. I have tried Kentmere before but didn't really care for the "tooth" of the paper... but that was a long time ago and I'll definitely re-visit it based on tihs post.

I prefer "cold-tone" for my work so can't speak too much re the warmtone papers... although from what I have seen of others work, I'd prefer Ilford warmtone to Oriental warmtone. Besides that, it is hard for me to rationalize spending nearly $4 per sheet for 16x20 Ilford WT

jeroldharter
8-Dec-2009, 10:06
Of course, people will opine on one of the few papers I did not use!

jwaddison
8-Dec-2009, 10:40
Of course, people will opine on one of the few papers I did not use!

Of course, there's a rule about that!

bob carnie
8-Dec-2009, 10:46
I would be one that would like to hear your thoughts on this paper as it is my favorite.
QUOTE=jeroldharter;535458]Of course, people will opine on one of the few papers I did not use![/QUOTE]

Bruce Barlow
9-Dec-2009, 06:01
Having done similar tests years ago on papers, many of which are no longer available, I commend you, and appreciate how much work you just went to. Kudos! Outstanding!

The curious can download my now-far-outdated results from my web site for free.

John Powers
9-Dec-2009, 09:00
Richard Wasserman just posted this over on APUG. I will be printing 16x20 Kentmere FBVC next school term from 8x10 negatives. It looked like a less expensive way to proof the negatives before enlarging.

"I was wandering about Badgers website last night and stumbled upon 8x10 Kentmere Fineprint paper in the used gear area–it's actually a close-out, not used paper. $35.00 per 100 sheet box, just about 1/2 price. Just a heads-up, I'm not affiliated with them, but am a very happy customer.

https://www.badgergraphic.com/store/..._detail&p=3181
__________________
___________________________________________

Richard Wasserman"

Thanks Richard.

John

jeroldharter
9-Dec-2009, 12:38
Having done similar tests years ago on papers, many of which are no longer available, I commend you, and appreciate how much work you just went to. Kudos! Outstanding!

The curious can download my now-far-outdated results from my web site for free.

Bruce,

Thanks for the link. I remember reading those articles when first published and really enjoyed them. You did a much better and more thorough job than I. I had a day to burn in the darkroom and did what I could. I did not compare developers or test drydown.

Have you thought about doing a repeat with the current papers and developers? That would be great especially with scanned prints showing the differences. I would pay for that!

Jamie

Toyon
9-Dec-2009, 13:48
Even worse than the dry down problem, is the effect of UV protective glass. I find I lose about a stop every time I mount a print behind glass. Ugghh.

Ed Pierce
10-Dec-2009, 17:11
Thanks Jerold for taking the time to share your findings.

I'm curious why you didn't include Seagull VC...

Drew Wiley
10-Dec-2009, 17:28
I'm re-learning my papers too. Kentmere VCFB is very impressive and has none of the coating inconsistencies that it had a couple years back. For cold-tone work I like it
better than either Forte Polygrade V or Seagull G, which I considered very fine papers. Been using Ilford Multigrade warmtone for subjects appropriate for the tone. Want to try the new MCC warmtone; although I wasn't especially happy with it when Agfa made it, I have since learned quite a few tricks which warrant another run. In the old days, when I wanted warm, I used Portriga. I've got quite a few other papers on hand,
but Kentmere VCFB is probably the one I'll use the most of.

jeroldharter
11-Dec-2009, 09:43
Thanks Jerold for taking the time to share your findings.

I'm curious why you didn't include Seagull VC...

I just ordered packets of 25 sheets of as many 8x10 papers as were available at Freestyle. The Oriental might have been an oversight in that I just used the warmtone version. I would have included Berger if available. Some of the papers: Oriental Warmtone and Adox MCC 110 were on backorder at the time. I did not do any of the Arista papers either. They are nice but they change suppliers so often that I don't want to be beholden to them. As it stands, whatever paper I like best disappears within 2-3 years anyway.

The Oriental warmtone is a nice paper though. When my Polywarmtone is gone, I will probably use that.

rcjtapio
11-Dec-2009, 13:29
I also want to thank you for your insight. Another criterion that I may suggest to add in your evaluation is the ability to bleach. I currently use the Ilford MG IV glossy which I like, but it doesn't beach very well. Eliminating this tool in my bag of tricks has made me consider trying the Kentmere paper, but I'm not sure if it is compatable with bleaching. Maybe someone out there knows.

Rick Tapio

jeroldharter
11-Dec-2009, 19:50
Good point. I did not think of testing bleaching. I suppose papers differ like toning but it would be hard to say much beyon "a little" or a lot" and I suppose it would just depend on the strength of the bleach.

As a Kentmere user I can tell you that it responds very well to potassium ferricyanide bleach.